For those who disagreed with the idea of crop rotation for plants in the nightshade family,ie; eggplant, tomatoes and peppers, please read the article on peppers on page 51 of the Aug/Oct 2008 issue of Organic Gardening Magazine. Especially read the last paragraph on page 51 cont. on page 52.

The author is simply restating what is a general rule given to "conventional" gardeners with little or no thought given to the condition of your soil. A basic tenet of organic gardening is that the soil is the most important part of your garden. Sir Albert Howard, Friend Sykes, Lady Eve Balfour, and J. I. Rodale all wrote abut getting your soil into a good, healthy condition so that soil would grow stron and healthy plants that are better able to withstand plant diseases adn insect pests, but many new organic gardeners today simply will not grasp the concept of a good, healthy soil wanting to hold onto the beliefs from the "conventional" garden theory that you must spray, heavily and often, to keep these things under control.
Get your soil into a condition that mets the needs of the plants you grow so they can grow strong and helathy and there will be no need to concern your self about plant disease and insect pests because good health is the norm and disease is not. If there is no need to rotate your perennials there is no need to rotate your annuals. If there is no need to rotate your trees, there is no need to roatate anything else, providing you work on your soil and make that a good, healthy soil.

Kimm1: I planted some tomatoes this year in the same place they were last year, and they don't seem any more diseased than the others. I also put the cucumbers back in the one spot they have done well and I think I will keep them there. I haven't had a problem with going no-till either, since you (I think it was you) talked about it here several years ago. The only thing I am hesitating on is letting diseased leaves mix in with the soil to let soil organisms develop an arsenal against them. I may take the plunge, since you haven't steered me wrong yet.

Inasmuch as I've been hoping OG magazine would publish a more definitive article about crop rotation in a backyard gardening venue, unfortunately, that blurb in the recent issue doesn't go far enough IMO. It's something, I suppose. But, since this subject is routinely flogged here ad infinitum .....you'd think that someone on the mag's staff who may peruse these forums occasionally would put a little more effort into elaborating on this subject. Ho-hum...

Whether to rotate or not to rotate...that is the question only answered by each individual. (With apologies to Willy Shakespeare).

An excellent discussion (one of many) was 'held' on this back in April. It includes a very succinct explanation by farmhound, btw, as to why this "apples-to-oranges", "perennial vs. annual (veggie)" argument is so specious. You can find it HERE

Frankly, I don't understand what the big brouhaha is all about, & find it unbelievably funny that so many people are going tooth-&-nail about it.

Either rotate your crops or don't rotate your crops. No one is holding your feet to the fire to do either. Do one or the other. Experiment if you want. Who cares??

Gardenz thanks for the link (Here)...I think people should go with what they feel is right for them. Only experience will guide a person. What works for one does not work for others. Also, Does Kimm1 dig her diseased plants back into the soil as she advises. I would like to see photo's of her garden....

Yes, when I have perfectly healthy soil in my garden and know the nutrients are in perfect balance, maybe I'll forget about moving my veggies around the garden.

I lost a lot of tomato plants this year to disease in my new garden. I have no interest in repeating it next year so one of the steps I'll take is to move the tomatoes to another part of the garden.

I also plan heavy-feeding crops to take their place on beds that previously hosted nitrogen fixing plants like peas or beans.

If I have had certain insect problems the season prior, I certainly don't want to plant the same crop in the same place under row covers when those pests have overwintered in the soil or in the mulch.

Every year I garden, I learn new things about how a crop performs in its setting, (light, wind, etc) and puzzle how it might perform better elsewhere.

This type of crop rotation is one of the things that Kimm and I disagree on. I think ~he~ proposes a pie-in-the-sky scenario that perhaps exists in ~his~ garden but, as yet, hasn't been achieved in mine.

And, though I certainly don't feel it necessary to justify or defend "home garden crop rotation," I would move crops around the garden each year just for the variety. Next year, the blue-green of the brassicas won't be so heavily concentrated in one area and there will definitely be more reds towards the front.

"Everything changes. Nothing remains without change." - Buddha.

Buddhist teachings say that change is good. People should accept it and enjoy it. It is necessary for growth and healing. It is necessary for me in my garden. Buddhist teachings say that it is constant and cyclical. Sounds like crop rotation in my garden, at least.

Wayne

Well, I have never got it perfect. The beans were a bit too crowded, last year the water melon overran the potatoes... sometimes there is a large bare spot...sometimes too close together. I just rotate, and keep trying.

I don't think that rotating tomatoes and stuff hurts anything

I may move some things around, but I'm willing to experiment and see what happens if I leave things where they grow best. I have only one spot where cucumbers thrive, so it makes no sense to move them where they won't grow. My garden space is about 25 feet in each direction and I figure I have about 400 sq feet. I usually switch the tomato/pepper/eggplant group with the everything else group every year so it's not being cycled all that much anyway. I'll let you know next year (and the year after) if it made much difference.

Since Kimm1 (a male by the way, anyone that assumes someone with that name must be a she is very prejudiced) does not have diseased plants to turn in, I can't do that. If I did have any diseased plants they would be turned into the soil and the same plants would be planted in the same area the folowing year. I correspond with people all over the world, New Zeland, Australia, Ireland, Germany, England, Poland, as well as the USA and Canada, that have done just that. People that had very sick soils when they started gardening where they are and have made the soil they now have into a good, healthy aoil that grows strong and healthy plants and did turn in the diseased plants early on and no longer have those problems.

I admit that I did think you were female, but I also think it's a bit abrupt for you to think that any/everyone who assumes that is automatically prejudiced. It's a very simple assumption.

If you said you were Bailey1, Jesse1, Chris1, Bobby1, or any number of other names that've been used for males or females in the U.S. over the years, the same assumption could easily be made. That doesn't make the assumer prejudiced. And prejudiced against what, exactly?

quote:

Originally posted by Kimm1:
Since Kimm1 (a male by the way, anyone that assumes someone with that name must be a she is very prejudiced)

A bit off-topic, but since you brought it up, I really don't think it's fair to veggiegal to judge her as a 'prejudiced' person simply because she made an honest mistake thinking you were a female. She's relatively new to the forum and may not have read each and every one of your posts, Kimm. Besides, sometimes a member's posts give no indication as to their gender...especially, as I said, to a newcomer. After all, we're all entitled to a mistake now and then. No one is perfect...except in their own minds.

I bet there are at least 4 people here that I got their gender wrong until I was told or figured it out on my own. (SH)It happens! Laugh it off, there's no need for snide comments.

Number one I think that anyone who would incorperate sick and diseased plants into their soil has a loose screw in their cranium.

Back on the subject of crop rotation. I volunteer in the local office of our state university extension office and frequently hear farmers complain about; compacted soil, having to apply more and more fertilizer to get the same bu/A, having to apply more and new chemicals to control weeds and disease. You want to know what the cause is. Crop rotation.
Farmers plant corn, corn, and corn or soybeans year after year. There was a study made back in the late 1990's (sorry I can't find the piece just now). It was proven that farm land that had a 3 or 4 year crop rotation had a larger per acre yeild of corn, with less fertilizer, weeds and insects. Another piece of info that they found was that rotated crop ground had a better structure.
My point is; if its good for the farmer to rotate his crops then why not rotate our garden crops?
It was also stated that we don't rotate our perinials so why rotate our annuals?
Well let me say that a lot of us do rotate our perenials. We may not dig up the whole plant and move it to a new location, but a good flower gardener will divide and replant their perenials frequently. This does for a plant what rotating does for the annual plants.

Mr. Kimm1: I am certainly NOT prejudiced !!!
But, my opinion is that you just like to argue.