Well... I learned what I'm doing wrong with the garden by watching an area extension agent on the noon new!

He said to apply 70-100lbs of lime, 50lbs of 12-12-12 fertilizer, Till that into the garden, then use "Miracle grow" water to set the tomato plants out in, then just sit back and watch until the fruits set on.

Dang! I know a lot of folks at the farmers market use miracle grow when they plant their plants.

IS THAT WHAT I'M DOING WRONG? SNUBBING MY NOSE AT MIRACLE GROW?

Wasrabbity,
Yes....if you'd just give in to the MIRACLE, you'd have tomatoes bigger than your house!!

This past weekend I went to a gardening conference where one of the speakers was gardening author Nancy Szerlag. As she began her presentation, she mentioned Miracle Gro and of course I bristled in my seat...but thought to myself "OK...hear her out". Imagine my complete shock and surprise when she said "I don't recommend using it!" She is a big advocate of adding organic material to the soil and using natural fertilizers. I made a bee-line to speak with her at the lunch break and thanked her for promoting organic gardening. This was a conference for master gardeners and I hope some of what she said sunk in. Unfortunately the program in our area does little to promote organic growing....something that I hope will change in the near future.

Buffalogal, It's starting to sound like your/our hope is coming to pass. I'm seeing more organic food in the supermarket for example, and I do remember when it was almost impossible to find even whole wheat bread. When a conference of master gardeners engages a speaker who promotes organic gardening, there is hope. Jackie

That's why I would never join our local Master Gardeners.
Jackieflowerseed2 you are telling our age!!! I remember when I couldn't find Dannon yogurt or any yogurt with "Cultures"

I got a kick out of someone this evening who was griping about Subway's bread being to thick! I thought, "there's a white bread eater if ever there was one."

Ok, ok...I'm still a newbie to all of this so I'll need some explanation. I'm hungry for knowledge so please don't beat me up for not knowing this...but what exactly is the problem with miracle grow?

I had already planned not to put it on my herbs and vegetables, but what is the harm in putting it on my flowers and shrubs? Is it the effect on streams and fishes, etc.?

We are in the process [this week, in fact] of going cold turkey on our household chemicals and switching to eco-friendly stuff so I definitely don't want to do anything that would make me feel like a hypocrite by adding--what I wouldn't put on my body--to my soil....Help?

I'm googling, as I post! ?:|

Gigi,
I think most of us here are hungry to know more about living healthier lives and leaving lighter footprints on the earth, so don't ever worry about anyone beating you up here!! We've all asked the same questions you're asking.

I'll be the first to admit I am not good at regurgitating word for word the information I read here. My best suggestion in lieu of someone else here posting the information you're wanting is to do a search in these forums on Miracle Gro.

I think many of the gardeners here approach gardening from a 'feed the soil, not the plant' outlook. Miracle Gro does nothing beneficial for your soil. There are so many things you can do to improve the quality and health of your soil. And healthy soil = healthy plants. For me it comes down to preferring to use the wealth of natural material Mother Nature gives us to add to the soil vs. a bunch of man-made synthetic chemicals. If you want technical information on Miracle Gro, a search on Miracle Gro in the forums here will give you more information than you'll probably have time to read as this subject has been discussed numerous times here.

Another reason is $$$$. Miracle Gro costs money. Leaves are free. Grass clippings are free. I'd rather spend my money on new flowers any day.

Hopefully someone else will be able to supply you with the more technical information I know you're looking for. I wouldn't want to tell you anything inaccurate and without doing a search to get that information I'm afraid I might not give you correct information. I have to get my DS to the dentist in a few minutes so I don't have time to do a search right now.

Just wanted to let you know it's a wonderful feeling to stop using all the synthetics - both in AND out of the house. I have long been a believer in the power of baking soda and Dr. Bronner's Sal-Suds. If you are interested (and have the time) I have some good recipes for cleaning products you can make yourself that do a great job with simple easy to find ingredients. Let me know if you'd like more information...and happy gardening!

An analogy would be feeling tired much the time and drinking lots of coffee to feel better, which would be the Miracle Grow, or changing your diet to include more whole grains, less red meat, more low fat products, fewer sweets and so forth, which would be the organic method. You would get an immediate pick me up from the coffee, but you wouldn't be enhancing your health or doing anything about the underlying problem. Plus too much coffee would actually harm you.

Yes, feed the soil, compost-compost-and more compost! And organic fertilizers. I just buy them already made up; there are now several brands available. Your soil will become black and fluffy. Your plants, whether ornamentals or veggies, will grow beautifully. There will be lots of worms, birds, butterflies, micronutrients (Kimm Sr help me out here!), bees and other beneficial insects.

White vinegar instead of bleach in the laundry works well, btw. Diluted it's good for washing windows, too. Murphy's Oil Soap is great for washing wood floors. Here's a company that sells lots of cleaning and other household products that are better for the environment:

http://www.realgoods.com/

Hey Janet!
I'd be interested in some of those cleaning "recipes"...should you post it in the "Recipes" forum, or here?
Thanks, Vicki

Funny that last post...I was wondering if Jennifer was peeking in my windows. I do have a coffee addiction--which I am not willing to give up at this point, so no interventions, please! ] [I did go organic on my coffee beans, sometime ago, though.] AND, I washed windows all weekend with a vinegar and water solution.

DH and I were most impressed with how effective it worked at cleaning that green and black grime...Wow! Effective and cheap at $1.67 a gallon for the white vinegar. I'm assuming that it's not going to hurt my flowers, just maybe add acidity to the soil?

I would love to see the recipes, as well. Please do post a thread on this in the recipe section, though, so that it doesn't get lost in this miracle grow thread. It'll be easier to find later.

Also, does anyone know anything about Melaleuca products? We are about to sign up as customers and if they aren't that great, I'd like to know beforehand...The products are eco-friendly and safe for people and pets--which maybe a redundant statement...but again, I am a newbie...lol....

Thanks so much for the great information...it's got me researching more and more. Which leads me to the question about "organic" fertilizers. I read something this morning about how some of them aren't really good for animals [including, but not limited to humans and fishes], in spite of being good for your soil and plants. Anyone want to clarify what that might mean?

As many of you know, I'm sure, it's so incredibly easy to get bogged down in the information, especially when there is a political agenda to many of the sites that I've visited....Thanks for not being one of them!

I was in the garden area of Walmart yesterday, looking at seeds & potting soil. Another woman was pondering over which soil to get, then she turned around and started studying the fertilizer products...Miracle Grow, etc...

I had to walk away, and go back for my soil after she left...I couldn't stand to stay there & see which products she had chosen!

Vicki

Sometimes I'll say something in situations like that. Most people listen. Or if someone is buying a plant at a time that the nursery has no business selling, ie a tomato plant in September or pansies in late June, I'll talk about that too. Again, they usually listen. Of course, it all has to be done gently. You never know what kind of effect you can have.

Gigi,

You mentioned that you read about some organic ferts that could be harmful to pets and people,too? Please, please....tell me more!:O I'm a research hound and want to look into this a bit more. Can you provide a link or at least a mention as to where you read it? Thanks for this alert.

Oh...I forgot. In addition to all the great information you've received from others on this thread about Miracle Goo, here's a little snip from (of all places....) Organic Gardening Magazine (June, 2000):

"Miracle-Gro is a synthetic fertilizer that contains ammonium phosphate and several other chemicals that can be toxic to your soil and plants. It is prohibited from use in certified-organic farming. HereÂ’s what soil expert Robert Parnes, Ph.D., says in his book Fertile Soil: "[Ammonium fertilizer] acidifies the soil, and thus it is probably more harmful to soil organisms than any other nitrogen fertilizer . . . . The application has to be timed carefully and placed properly to avoid burning the leaves and roots . . . . In addition, ammonium tends to inhibit the release of . . . potassium . . . Ammonium fertilizers are deliberately manufactured to be spread at high application rates in order to obtain maximum yields with no regard to adverse effects on the soil. Probably nowhere is the conflict between the mass production of food to feed the world and the preservation of the soil more obvious than in the confrontation over the use of either ammonium fertilizers or liquid ammonia."

And thereÂ’s more: long-term studies at the University of Wisconsin have shown that acidic chemical fertilizers are causing serious, permanent damage to our soils. Usually these fertilizers are also highly soluble, so they leach away and pollute our water systems, too. Soil fertility authority Garn Wallace, Ph.D., of Wallace Laboratories in El Segundo, California, points out that Miracle-Gro contains muriate of potash, which contains excess chlorine that will burn plants and inhibit the uptake of nitrogen. Dr. Wallace also warns that products such as Miracle-Gro often contain unsafe levels of zinc and copper that will be toxic to soil life.

And if all that’s not enough to convince you to avoid this stuff, consider this: you have to mix Miracle-Gro with water and apply it ever "7 to 14 days." If you opt to fertilize organically, on the other hand, all you have to do is mix a ½-inch layer of grass clippings into your beds before each crop. As the grass decomposes, it will improve your soil’s texture and stimulate microbial life and help prevent disease, all while releasing plenty of nutrients to feed your plants. "

And..."No"...I don't memorize blurbs from all past OG magazines...
Er...just as far back as 1999. Then my memory gets a big cloudy.

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This is the link...sorry what I meant, apparently, was organic pesticides. Anyway, my concern is that I might do things that are costly and time-consuming and STILL be doing harm. I want to put less chemicals in/on my body and that of my family--perhaps, I should clarify that, as well.

Below is an excerpt from the above link, that gave me cause to be concerned. I don't even know what this organic chemical is, but it sounds scary. If it can hurt an infant, I certainly don't want it around my small children.

Pyrethrum is a widely used organic chemical, used by organic vegetable growers, and used by commercial industries as the toxin in sprays designed to kill everything from wasps to asparagus beetles. It's also a nerve toxin, and extremely dangerous to infants. Never use wasp spray around an infant, or you will learn just how dangerous some of Mother Earth's little secrets can be.

As for the memorizing old OG mags...lol...don't get me started on my passion: telling people that aspartame will kill you.

Thanks for the link and follow-up, Gigi. Pyrethrum is an organic pesticide that's derived from the seed heads of the (*tah-dah*) Pyrethrum Daisy!

But, this all goes to prove and reiterate that just because something is "organic" or "natural", doesn't mean it's 100% safe. Or even safe at all. And as the author of the article said, the toxicity of any pesticide can be relative. What you and I could handle w/o residual harm, could be highly toxic to an infant or child who metabolizes differently.

IMO, it comes down to the lesser of evils. Having my druthers, (*and I do luv my druthers*), I'd rather choose, say, a pyrethrum- containing product, that is least harmful to beneficials, disapates almost immediately by UVs (which is why it's only good to apply it to the insect when you see it) and doesn't have as long a soil afterlife which may enable it to find its way into waterways or underground acquifers...than, say, carbaryl.

Thanks again for the quick response, and when it comes to protecting children's health, I couldn't agree more! I think using even a "safer" organic or natural substance should be a last resort...after hand picking, IPM, a spritz of soapy water or a good blast of plain old water from the hose! X-(