I will not mention any names or political parties but I just can't let this slide.

The government sure knows how to spend you money. In that “Stimulus Package” are things like $87 million for a “polar ice breaking ship” even though they tell us Global Warming is melting all the polar ice. Then there is also $106 million for “paid volunteers”. What the heck is a paid volunteer?

I could go on but you get the idea. The American tax payer is being scammed big time.

quote:

Originally posted by call me Major:
I could go on but you get the idea. The American tax payer is being scammed big time.

I will not mention any names or political parties either but we've been scammed for the past 8 years.

Suddenly those that caused this mess, allowed it to happen, deregulated us into it or profited from it are all of a sudden getting all "fiscally responsible?" That would be a laugh if it weren't enough to make me puke.

I had to lay off two more people just in my small department last week, not to mention all the other departments that had to let people go. And not to mention those that lost their jobs in December when we were forced to close our smaller factory.

If massive public works projects is what it will take to help these good people survive these times than so be it. If we are borrowing from our great-grandchildren to achive this, then so what? I am nauseated by hearing the laments of those who have already put future generations into debt to give billions of dollars in tax breaks to the richest Americans.

Not that we are talking politics here.

Wayne

All I can say Wayne is I agree with you for the most part.

I was laid off in 1973 and again in 1981 when things were much worse than they are now. And we made it through those just fine without any massive public works projects.

What's that tell you?

PS: Maybe we can get Dirt to buy us each a beer while we think about all this.

Things seem "much worse" when you are the one being laid off. Like the old saying, "a recession is when your neighbor is laid off. A depression is when you are laid off."

In 1973, the unemlpoyment rate in the US ranged between 4.6 and 5.0 percent, depending on the month surveyed.

In 1981, rates varied from 7.23 to 8.5 percent and had been climbing slowly until the Reagan years when it spiked to almost 11 percent.

Currently it is at 7.6 percent and is expected to go over 9% in the next few months.

But factors other than umemployment rates are a big part of the difference. The extremely rapid rate we are losing jobs, the foreclosure rate at which Americans are losing their homes, the inability of businesses to get loans to survive despite banks taking tax dollar handouts to issue them, etc.

I wonder how high an unemployment rate would be necessary for people to realize the mess we are in? Our business is home building and we are one of the last in the area still holding on and employing people. Every business that loses jobs in this state cuts deeper into our future. When the shipyard in Bath lays off employees, those people lose their hopes to buy a home from us. When the local convenience store near the shipyard is forced to close because their business has taken a hit from the lack of customers that no longer come into the area, they don't buy a house from us. When our employees get laid off because of lack of orders, the local shop next door closes because their lunch business has dried up. You get the picture. This is a domino effect that isn't easily stopped.

Some folk may live or work in areas that are not greatly affected by this mess yet, but I think it is only a matter of time before they see the effects up close and personal. It isn't a pretty sight. I'm sick of scrambling every day to find enough work to keep my few remaining employees busy.

Wayne

I don't know much about economics (other than your outgo should not exceed your income ), but it seems like the more jobs are lost, it keeps snowballing and even more jobs are lost. And when businesses start going bankrupt and closing, more and more of them close. If things could just get going back in the right direction.

--J--

Major, you had asked; "Then there is also $106 million for “paid volunteers”. What the heck is a paid volunteer?"
I retired from the Forest Service back in 2004. We used lot's of paid volunteers without them you could kiss alot of services provided goodbye. I worked in wildland fire management and we used paid volunteers to staff fire lookouts that we could no longer hire employees to staff. We paid them a whopping $6.00 a day and let them live at the Lookout (1986ish). Many a campground host are paid volunteers. That's my limited knowledge on paid volunteers.

In a sense, other "paid volunteers" might by the United States military.

During the depression, millions of people were employed by the CCC, the Civilian Conservation Corp. Much of the work they did is still being used and enjoyed by Americans today. The same could be said for the Works Project Administration (WPA). Most of us will soon go into a Post Office or court house, or drive over a bridge or down a highway built by the WPA.

There is a value to the work provide by "paid volunteers." As ep4 said, they are still providing services we have come to expect.

Wayne

Yep Wayne, we have a lot of nice things that the CCC and the WPA did in the 30's. It put my farming grandfather to work so he could survive while farm prices fell to nothing.

Our area shouldn't have been hit that hard because we have Coal and Gas! But with all the paranoia, people are using "the economy" as an excuse to lay off, slow down. Last summer the energy companies were searching like crazy for all the sites they could find. Just today, one outfit announced it was pulling out of West Virginia (next door state), probably not enough profits to be had this year!

Thank you all for the answer to what a paid volunteer is. That is a term I had never heard used before.

If the new administration wants to save money/cut the deficit/stimulate the economy, they could do it in one move and I bloody well wish they would.

Given that our bombers could be over any other country that might threaten us inside of 24 hours, even if taking off from mainland America for the other side of the globe, we really have no need to spen BILLIONS on rent each year to the countries in which we have those bases.

Close most of them down and the rent can be cut from the budget, along with the amount of money needed for shipping tons of supplies to be to those bases each year.

Bring all those service people back home, but keep them all on the payroll. They will be spending their checks in American restaurants, theaters, gas stations, etc. Those who wish to live off base will be paying rent to American landlords.

There. Huge cut to military spending without reducing our military manpower by a single person, AND the economy gets stimulated with money that would be otherwise spent in foreign countries.

Need to practice in arctic conditions? Alaska. Rain forest conditions? Hawaii. Desert? Arizona, plus Utah for high desert conditions.
Swampland? Loiusiana and Florida. Mountains? The Rockies. Need to work on intercepting enemy insurgents? Our southern border is crossed regularly (I'm not talking about using military FIREPOWER here, just their ability to spot people on the ground--they can then notify the border patrol).

Oh, I'm all for a refueling depot or armory with guards stationed there in a few places overseas, but really--we are not the world's policeman, and shouldn't try to be.

quote:

Originally posted by badplantmommy:
I don't know much about economics (other than your outgo should not exceed your income )
--J--

You know more than most politicians do.

Dirt

Major,

Some of those "Paid Volunteers" include Volunteer Fire Departments (the volunteer part simply means the station isn't manned 24/7) and some or the Emergency Preparedness (Ambulance and Civil Defense) people. Had I ever asked for it, I would have beena "semi-paid" volunteer when I worked with what our County now calls "Emergency Management". They offered to compensate the volunteers for their expenses (use of personal vehicles in emergencies, etc). The only thing I asked for was that the County replace my vehicle in case of an accident (which, thankfully, never happened) during my service.

Just so you know. That part of the bill isn't ALL scam.

call me major,
do you actually know what happened in Iceland?
i'm not sure you can connect the dots between the USA and Iceland.
what's YOUR plan to turn the past 8 years around?
more of the SAME politics?

Yes franeli, I know what happened in Iceland. Their government spent more than they were able to take in and their government went bankrupt.

And I know that nobody can spend their way out of debt, not even our own government.

As for fixing things, I agree with CountryKitty. We need to stop being the worlds police force for starters and then we need to stop giving billions in foreign aid to other countries trying to buy friends when we have our very own people right here in this country that need help getting back on their feet. Maybe we can put some of those people that were policing the world along our boarders to stop the flow of drugs and illegal aliens too. Drugs are killing this country.

Also, if we get the illegal aliens out of our country then our kids will have the jobs that they used to do to establish a work history so that they could then get a better job as they matured. Our kids can't work their way up any more because the bottom few rungs of the ladder have been filled or just cut off by all those illegal aliens.

I would also stop all Social Security and other government services to anyone that has not put money into the system. In addition I would replace the welfare system with workfare including training where needed.

Major

quote:

Originally posted by call me Major:

Also, if we get the illegal aliens out of our country then our kids will have the jobs that they used to do to establish a work history so that they could then get a better job as they matured. Our kids can't work their way up any more because the bottom few rungs of the ladder have been filled or just cut off by all those illegal aliens.


Major

I can't believe that you are implicitly blaming the increase in unemployment, which is the effects of this recession, on the illegal immigrants...
Tell me, Major, how many illegal aliens work for the automotive industry?