For anyone out there in cyber land, if you love the environment and really care about this Great land of ours, check out what the Bush Administration has been up to these past years. Please, check it out:

http://www.nrdc.org/bushrecord/

Please EDUCATE yourself about what HAS been going on regarding the relaxation of all environmental issues.
Environmental pollution is just as important to our children's future as health and education. It IS their future.

Thank you for the info. I have always wondered what it would have been like with Al Gore, if the votes weren't screwed up in Florida, and some other state... I really hope Kerry wins. Bush is cutting the standards on Organic Farming, saying that it is okto use Pesticides, Herbicides, etc, etc and still call the food organic. AYE! He has also cut the standards of the Clean Water adn CLean Air Acts as well.

And if you REALLY care about the environment, get a hybrid car (gas/electric), electric, or when they finally create one, a hydrogen fuel cell car. The Later two are more environmentally friendly, than the first...

Thanks Franeli, you're right on as usual.

Nothing is scarier than a Bush win.

Except a KERRY win

I dunno, I don't think kerry is the best person for the job but at least he won't be bringing in the oil barons with him like whut Bush done and hasd a pretty good enviromental track record (Bush and Cheney score a big ZERO).

bush ain't the big problem but Cheney is and I like Edwards a whiole lot more than Cheney if for no other reason than Edwards is a decent ethical person and Cheney is not.

I really wonder about people who profess to be organic gardeners and yet can support the Bush regime and their rape of the environment and their dismantelling or the USDA certified organic program and big time support of Industrial ag/GMO's. An Administration that has pretty much destroyed the Green River valley in Wyoming with gas drilling and wants to rape the wild lands we still have for a few weeks of oil and gas. A regime that went to war for oil instead of using their imaginations to develop alternative fuel for real life use (I realize they have come up with theories but not much concrete).

There is a lot more to this election than national security and the "war on Terror(ism)" Bush has bankrupted the country, has lost far more jobs than he has created, has made policy to ensure the rich get richer, has made sure more uninsured people are in the US than 3 years ago, has made sure gasoline is at its most expensive in history.

If Kerry does worse that I guess every man woman and child on the facer of ther planet will be dead by December and I really doubt anything close to that will occur.

Don't believe the political rhetoric coming out of either camp-it is exaggerated and much of it lies.

Are you going to blame the rain on Bush too?

Bush inherited a mess to begin with, things weren't rosy and perfect just because Clinton was in office. While he has not been a perfect president (and who has, might I ask) I don't think he has been as devistating to the world as people may think. This war is minor compared with WWI, WWII or Vietnam. I think people have forgotten in our comfy little American lives that the world outside of America is a brutal place. More people died under Sadam than in this war so far. Hell, more people died in Turkey in that earthquake in 1999 than the number of Americans due to both 911 and Iraq. Would I have chosen to go to war? I don't know. But we are in it, and I think it was about more than oil.

I do not like the envornmental policies Bush has cut. However, I also know that cutting big business has that little side effect of job losses. So while promoting big business seems selfish and money mongering, in the long run it creates job stability for the rest of us. I don't think that these are simple problems that you can point at one person and say "He is to blame".

I don't even start to pretend I have the answers. I do know that trading Bush for Kerry is not going to make everything perfect. It may make things better, it may make them worse. Proababy it will simply trade one set of problems for another.

Bush has cut to the bone environmental restrictions so his oil/gas buddies can have a field day. he has rewarded corporations that outsource jobs and he has not addressed the loss of jobs due to outsourcing and other reasons.

Besides what good is the promise of job stability if the very earth you live upon is not stable? what good are jobs if we can not breathe decent air or drink potable water? What good are jobs if the population is simply too sick from pollution to do the jobs?

this is what Bush is taking from him, if you don't understand this and will support him because of his economic policy (which is scary, afterall he has a net loss of over 1 milliopn jobs and a trillion+ dollar debt-things that Clinton did not cause) I just don't know what to say.

And can you tell me how you people resolve the inconsistancies of supporting such a person and organic growing/living practises. I really cannot get my head around the neocon organic person it just seems to be such an oxymoron.

Politics are fluid, what Bush changes today will be changed again in a few years. If the only items on the agenda were environmental ones, then everything else would suffer. We are based on a free market society. Americans on a whole are unwilling to make the changes necessary to sustainable living. Why is Bush looking for more oil? Because Americans are using more oil. Bush is simply a symptom of the core problem that Americans are fat, lazy and far too comfortable. Kerry will no more change that than Nader would if he ever made office. A president is not going to change the environmental practices (ei demand for resources) in this country. When we toughen our laws here the businesses simply move somewhere else, or we buy from somewhere cheaper. All well and good to say not here, but the earth is only so big, and if they are using DDT in Mexico at our American businesses, it is no better than if they were using the stuff here.

I organic garden because I think I can do more good changing my own behavior than trying to change other's behavior. It is not oxymoronic. It is chosing my battles.

Posts: 1
Registered: 10/4/04
This is how I replied to, David on the topic of John Stossel's asking for REAL FACTS on the enviroment.


Re: Corporate Child Molesters
Posted: Oct 4, 2004 1:31 PM


 

Reply



David
The biggest reason that I garden organically is, I'm cheap!
I don't want to spend money on chemicals that make it seem like I'm cheating the system./ The second reason is, the food tastes soooo much better. And the third reason, it gives me a feeling of independence and great satisfaction.
However David, when it comes to politics, and that is what you are discussing, you should approach it with a logical, and fair and FACTUAL way.
Are you sure that you have your facts straight?
The truth of the matter is, that scientists are split 50/50 on global warming. My training in automotive A/C systems taught me that refrigerants sink, and don't rise to destroy ozone. Much of this seems to be based on fear and political agenda.
I want the facts!
- NO FEAR-
If and when real facts are presented, I will be the first to help.

I think perhaps that your disgust with John Stossell comes from the fact that he disagrees with many 'norms'
That is what organic gardeners are!
We aren't considered normal.
As far as Rush Limbaugh goes, have you ever listened to him for any period of time?
You might just be surprised,about him, as I was/am.

I once had a 'normal' county extention agent tell me, 'organic garening doesn't work'
really!
I have been doing it now for 25-30 years.
And try to remember, it was Teddy Roosevelt who started the modern day conservationist movement. [a Republican by the way]
And I still am a conservationist/Republican/Christian/organic gardener/racer/father/grandfather/family man. [do I need to go on?]


Oops, it's outa' the bag, now I won't get any respect.
Dwight McCullough

Uuh a Kerry win means; higher taxes, on us the 'rich' you know who make $40,000 annually, marriage down the tubes, loss of freedoms, regulations like you cannot fathom, the military cut to bare bones, just like under Presidents, Roosevelt, Carter, Clinton, etc. Loss of free speech, religion.
Are you aware that these types really are socialists?
Is that what you really want?
Just take a look at the 'former' Soviet Union. Or North Korea.
Get real.
Dwight McCullough

Actually, scientists were split 50/50 on global warming a number of years ago.Now that more research has been done, most of the more conservative scientists have admitted to it occurring. Now the difference of opinion is more in whether it is a bad or good thing- possibly more arable land versus coastal flooding. Personally, I would rather have action taken and find it is unnecessary than have no action taken and find that it was.

Here is a new organization looking for change. I believe 10 Nobel Laureates are among the original founders:

http://scientistsandengineersforchange.org/index.php

You know what, Dwight? I have read your version of reality again and again and again...on many different forums. Frankly, I don't know if you'd recognize a "fact" if it fell on your head. When you start spouting off that Democrats are nothing but socialists in sheep's clothing, you completely lose credibility. You are just regurgitating what you are fed. And it has nothing to do with FACTS.

Most people lurk on this site before piping in. I have seen a few of your posts now and not ONE had anything to do with organic gardening (other than your proclamation that you do so because you're cheap). Everything I've read by you is confrontative, controversial, and, frankly, not very nice. Why don't you try being friendly and getting to know people before you start shoving your weight around?

You certainly are not adding anything to the tenor of these forums.

In other words, lighten up.

Phoebe bird

This is not meant to be support for anything Bush has done, but I do have to speak up when people say "He rewarded corporations that outsourced jobs".

In fact, he did.

However, so did everyone else who ever shopped at WalMart hooked on the promises of "roll-back pricing". Those lower and lower prices 'mericans seem to love are what drive much of that outsourcing!

It ain't just Bush folks!

Symbolism versus substance!

Just talking about a subject versus actually doing something that helps.

As far as getting to know people better before piping in?
Well I have been silent long enough!
I'm sick of this socialist drivvel!

What ever happened to logic?
And real science?
Organic gardening works!
But to force it unto everyone is not the way to influence people and make friends. Let's convince them by success.
But find out who your enemy is before you strike out against [any politician]
Part of the communist philoshpy is lying is OK as long as it keeps them in power.
And don't give me this, 'they are all crooked liars'

Just gimme' da' facts!
Dwight