quote:

Originally posted by adirondackgardener:

They brought it on themselves and deserve it.

Wayne

For a moment I thought you were talking about the UAW or the American public. About your reply above about mandated retirement of gas guzzlers I presume those not in a position to be able to retire theirs will get one provided by the government along with free health care?

Dirt

PS. It appears to me we agree quite a bit on the end result (of the energy policy) but part ways on which corrupt/self-serving/power hungry political party to best accomplish the goal. Just can't get past the example John Edwards sets.

PPS. What's the difference between an auto industry CEO and a rich US Senator (pick a party)?

Dirt Pit wait till he find out what the average
mpg of tractor trailer is and all stores are empty within a week.6-8 mpg No garbage trucks will be allowed on average route about 1 mpg. If want know what most cities will look like. Check out picture of nyc garbage strike.
Since they all will be banned under his ill thought out plan.

the best estimates for replace 90% of the cars on the road with either higher mpg vehicles , converting current cars to run at high mpg or increasing public transit to accommodate the all the people who want use it would take 25-35 years. The utopian vision will not work since those who can afford it will not subsidize the poor.
As for the poor of world living off USA farm surplus grain production though food aid . They better learn to grow there own food fast because other wise they are out luck.

The good news from high gas prices is that India and China will have slowing growth since they will not be able subsidize fuel prices as much to fuel growth. And manufacturing in USA will become competitive again since shipping cost from developing countries is starting to out weigh the cost savings of production there.

quote:

Dirt Pit wait till he find out what the average
mpg of tractor trailer is and all stores are empty within a week.6-8 mpg No garbage trucks will be allowed on average route about 1 mpg. If want know what most cities will look like. Check out picture of nyc garbage strike.
Since they all will be banned under his ill thought out plan.

the best estimates for replace 90% of the cars on the road with either higher mpg vehicles , converting current cars to run at high mpg or increasing public transit to accommodate the all the people who want use it would take 25-35 years. The utopian vision will not work since those who can afford it will not subsidize the poor.
As for the poor of world living off USA farm surplus grain production though food aid . They better learn to grow there own food fast because other wise they are out luck.

The good news from high gas prices is that India and China will have slowing growth since they will not be able subsidize fuel prices as much to fuel growth. And manufacturing in USA will become competitive again since shipping cost from developing countries is starting to out weigh the cost savings of production there.

So your plan is to do nothing to reduce petro consumption or demand, force the majority of the US population into poverty, allow the rest of the world to surpass us in clean energy technology development, and let the economy grind to a halt? Just what will those new US manufacturing plants use for fuel then in this Laissez-faire Utopian vision of yours? How will the labor force (earning less than a livable wage, no doubt) be transported to the gleaming new facilities when they can't afford gas, no public transportation exists (funding for transit infrastructure expansion and improvements being voted down by a myopic populace in 2008, too blinded by right-wing punditry to bother planning for the future), and no large-scale conversion to fuel efficient vehicles occurred because "it will take 25-35 years, so why bother?" Shanty towns and indentured servitude are not really the vision of the future most Americans hold for this country – it's a shame that's all you would offer them.

quote:

Dirt Pit wait till he find out what the average
mpg of tractor trailer is and all stores are empty within a week.6-8 mpg No garbage trucks will be allowed on average route about 1 mpg. If want know what most cities will look like. Check out picture of nyc garbage strike.

gridgardener, I suggest you re-read the the scenario, perhaps paying a bit of attention this time. If you need help looking up "non-commercial" in the dictionary, please don't hesitate ask any of us. We're here to help.

quote:

Since they all will be banned under his ill thought out plan.

There is a plan? I thought Dirt and I were discussing a hypothetical scenario. (Let us know if you need help with those words.)

Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by Matt from CT:

quote:

They brought it on themselves and deserve it.

Which is it?

People are hapless and need a dictator smarter then them to direct their economy,

Or companies are responsible for their decisions and how the market responds?

Well, I wouldn't be too upset if a lot of tobacco farmers found themselves in the poor house when our government bans the over the counter sale of the drug, nicotine just as I don't shed any tears over crack dealers losing all when they are busted.

Both are business entities responsible for their decisions. That the market still demands a product despite the obvious growing pressures of society to put an end to their enterprise is not a reason to allow it to continue. Likewise, that we have an abundance of milquetoast accountants from Greenwich CT that needs a Hummer to make them feel like real men (or governors from California who need 6 or 8 of them for the same reason) does not mean that GM should not be held responsible for their desicion to provide automotive crack to foolish people.

And yes, we Americans have often proven ourselves to be incapable of making decisions that will be in our long-term interests. (I attribute that to the various forms of crack we have let our industries get us addicted to.) A benevolent dictator may be what we need until we grow up as a society.

Wayne

adirondackgardener I was give a opposite example
since the democrats in congress said new oil drilling will not lower the price of oil immediately we should not drill for new sources of oil.
The latest news from India that they will not think about cutting emissions until the reach the same average standard of living as the USA.

SO...................

READ 2 DOOMSDAY REPORTS TODAY!

The United States OF AMERICA,

is what?

History within the year?

We shall all die? Or wish we were dead?

NOT ME!

Only Hummer drivers may wish they were dead, Lisaann, with not enough fuel for their only link to manhood, but not ordinary, responsible citizens with gardens in their yards and brains in their heads.

Where there are gardens and bicycles, there is hope.

Wayne

quote:

Originally posted by thegreatgardener:
...The latest news from India that they will not think about cutting emissions until the reach the same average standard of living as the USA.

Well then it won't be too long. The great sucking sound is getting louder and we are starting to swirl. It should only take us a three or four more years to meet the Indians and the Chinese in the U-bend beneath the standard of living toilet.

quote:

Where there are gardens and bicycles, there is hope.

I think I kind of like this line. Maybe I will copyright it.

Where there are gardens and bicycles, there is hope. ©

Maybe I'll use it as a signature line!

I like it. Second line could be:
And where there is garlic and sunshine, there is life

On this topic, there is a documentary entitled, "Who Killed the Electric Car?" which is getting a lot of play these days.

"General Motors has been at the center of one of the nation’s largest controversies over clean emissions-cars. In 1996 the company introduced the EV-1 electric car in California and Arizona. Hundreds of the electric cars were soon on the road. Then they all disappeared. The mystery behind their disappearance is the subject of the documentary “Who Killed the Electric Car?”

http://www.sonyclassics.com/whokilledtheelectriccar/

quote:

Originally posted by ellenr:
"Who Killed the Electric Car?"

Al Gore!

Too many electric cars - no global warming, no crusade, no academy award, no peace prize, no $100 mil check in the hip pocket. It was a vast left wing conspiracy!


Dirt

PS. "1 1000, 2 1000, 3 1000, ........."

quote:

there are just too many of us on this planet

Exactly.
It took until 1800 to reach the first billion of global population.
It took 130 years to reach the 2nd billion. Now it is predicted by 2012 the population will reach 7 billion!
It will take only 13 years to reach the 7th billion.

frightening.

quote:

Originally posted by ellenr:

quote:

there are just too many of us on this planet

Exactly.

frightening.

Volunteers? Please exclude me from "us".

What's frightening is what someone will come up with to control the population.

Dirt