Which is why I told you in the very beginning to introduce yourself as a GARDENER

No y'all are into food plants, you seem to hate other plants!

All plants are God's creations!

quote:

Which is why I told you in the very beginning to introduce yourself as a GARDENER

I am a gardener!

You know I've never even used many of the psychoactive plants I grow!

My motto is- "Tis more holy to grow than to eat"

Liz,

Yes, I have a low tolerance for this poster, but I have since put her on Ignore. I don't like how she posts and I don't like the topics she posts about. I don't like that she has called several of us stupid fools when we don't agree with her. Luckily, I won't see anymore of her garbage.

HMK, How do you put someone on ignore? I want to do it too...

Hi Mainebird,

Click on their name and a drop down menus will appear, click on add to ignore list. It beats having to read a bunch of immature postings.

Teo,

Have you read the OG terms of service? In particular, the following:

THE COMMUNICATIONS AREAS OF ORGANIC GARDENING FORUMS SHALL BE USED FOR LAWFUL PURPOSES ONLY. NO MATERIAL SHALL BE POSTED ON OR TRANSMITTED THROUGH ORGANIC GARDENING FORUMS WHICH VIOLATES OR INFRINGES IN ANY WAY UPON THE RIGHTS OF OTHERS, WHICH IS UNLAWFUL, THREATENING, ABUSIVE, DEFAMATORY, INVASIVE OF PRIVACY OR PUBLICITY RIGHTS, VULGAR, OBSCENE, PROFANE, INDECENT, WHICH ENCOURAGES CONDUCT THAT WOULD CONSTITUTE A CRIMINAL OFFENSE, GIVES RISE TO CIVIL LIABILITY OR IS OTHERWISE OBJECTIONABLE. LINKS/ADVERTISING No advertising or promotion statements are permitted in Organic Gardening Forums message boards.

Calling people stupid or any other names, even if they don't agree with you, goes against these terms.

Posting threads that include your email address in connection with the sale of your plants goes against these terms.

Promoting the use of mind-altering substances, plant-based or otherwise, goes against these terms.

I have defended your right to be here and still think you're pretty cool and somebody I could learn stuff from, but I don't condone the name-calling, sales pitches or how you encourage conduct that could constitute a criminal offense. It seems to me that you are more interested in arguing or getting a rise out of people than engaging in civil dialogue. If that's the case, there are other forums that might be better suited for you.

Lastly, there are a bunch of really wonderful people who post on these boards, people who have taught me lots of things about organic gardening (and I've been gardening organically since I was 8 years old--IOW, longer than you have been alive, my friend), people who have forgiven me my transgressions--more than once--and accepted and welcomed me, people who have supported me through really difficult times in my life. Although I have not met most of them face-to-face, I consider them my friends.

Now, I'm not telling you what to do, Teo; the following words are strictly suggestions; heck, I can still barely take care of myself, let alone tell other people how to run their own lives: If you were to make an effort to get to know these folks, they may surprise and delight you in how kind, compassionate and knowledgeable they are.

Instead of trying to impose your own agenda (the sale of your plants) and beliefs (such as that substances such as marijuana and peyote are life-enhancing) and were instead to find a common ground--namely, organic gardening practices--you will find that you have tapped into a limitless knowledge base. If we were to add up the years of knowledge about organic gardening contained within these pages, I am confident it would span more than a century.

Instead of calling people names who don't agree with you (and this works both ways), if you were to appreciate the diversity of people who normally would not mix, but who, nonetheless, have found a place to come together in support of their commitment to preserving the earth and growing food, and other plants, without using harmful chemicals and pesticides, I can almost guarantee that you will develop love and respect for at least a few of the folks here who post on a regular basis.

The only reason I am even bothering to try to engage with you, Teo, is because I see some of myself in you when I was your age. I also happen to think you are extremely intelligent and could add great value to these boards, if you were to "dial it down" (to use your own words) and practice some measure of acceptance for people's differences.

I think it's awesome that you are in school (what are you studying?) while running a business and doing construction work. How many hours are you taking this semseter? Are your parents helping you out at all? Do you still live at home? Although my folks TRIED to support me going to college, I was not ready when I was your age. I didn't finish my bachelor's degree until I was in my 30s and by then my parents were no longer bailing me out of the messes I kept getting into. You sound much more self-sufficient than I was in my 20s, believe me.

I hope you will consider my suggestions and stick around in the spirit of a bunch of folks who are trying to leave the earth a little better than we found it, regardless of our spiritual, political or cultural beliefs.

Will you think about it? Are you on Twitter? You are welcome to also connect with me there: http://twitter.com/FarmerPhoebe

Namaste

quote:

Yes, I have a low tolerance for this poster, but I have since put her on Ignore. I don't like how she posts and I don't like the topics she posts about. I don't like that she has called several of us stupid fools when we don't agree with her. Luckily, I won't see anymore of her garbage.

You are a stupid fool.

quote:

(what are you studying?)

Botany and horticulture.

quote:

Instead of calling people names who don't agree with you (and this works both ways)

I did NOT start that until people starting calling me names.

I think it's VERY immature.

quote:

Promoting the use of mind-altering substances, plant-based or otherwise, goes against these terms.

Ayahuasca is legal and so are many other entheogens.

I can not talk about the illegal ones, that is fine, but there are only 7 illegal plants and the rest are all 100% legal.

quote:

You sound much more self-sufficient than I was in my 20s, believe me.

I haven't bought a potato, tomato or pepper from any store in over 3 years I grow them all myself.

I'm trying to create a sustainable, self-sufficient, "green" farm where I can grow food and entheogens!

AHA!! You do grow food plants! Why not join in some of the conversations about them so that people around here can get to know you better as a person and as a well-rounded gardener?

Of course I grow foods!

They're one of my favorite things to grow! I have more peppers than anything else!

As I said, I started talking about psychoactives so much because people got in such a tiff about it and it seemed like it really got their goat, so to speak

I like pushing this issue because I believe it is equatable to racism from 50 or 60 years ago and in another 50 or 60 years the ignorance against the use of plant entheogens will be seen in much the same way.

If anybody has the slightest interest I encourage you to go out there and research plant-entheogens for yourself, you will find an amazing world of history, culture and philosophy encompassing ALMOST EVERY SINGLE SOCIETY that has even been on the face of the Earth, in fact the only people who do not use any type of psychoactives traditionally are Eskimos.

One thing that gets my goat.... so to speak is when people consider their drugs (often alcohol, caffeine, pharmaceutical "anti-depressants", and nicotine) better than other cultures drugs.

Before we continue let me state again.... I only support the use of PLANT-drugs which have long histories of human usage showing them to be SAFE- No heroin, no cocaine, no meth, no Datura, etc.

How can you argue that this is not safe? How can you argue that I am "ruining my mind" when I have multiple scientific reports from multiple reputable sources which indicate that plant entheogens such as Ayahuasca and Peyote are not only safe but they are good for you?

quote:

AHA!! You do grow food plants! clap Why not join in some of the conversations about them so that people around here can get to know you better as a person and as a well-rounded gardener?

I'd love to.

quote:

Originally posted by Teotzlcoatl:

You are a stupid fool.

I KNOW you understand that retaliating by name-calling makes you no better than the name-callers--regardless of who starts it. Lisaann and Hairy Moose Knuckles are my friends and when you disrespect them, you are also disrespecting me and everyone else on the boards. Besides, it's immature and creates a LOT of negative energy, and I believe that underneath your defensive posturing you are a woman of peace and love. Don't let others' ignorance or lack of acceptance derail you from your purpose.

quote:

I did NOT start that until people starting calling me names.

I think it's VERY immature.

I agree. It's very immature on all of our parts. By participating, regardless of who started it, you are helping to generate bad energy here; it's not necessary. HMK has chosen to put you on his ignore list; I am confident lisaann will come around. She is not a mean person, but sometimes we all do/say mean things.

I don't really want to dredge up the past, but I think it might be helpful to you. Teo, if you do a search in Club OG using my screen name, phoebe bird, you will see that I have gotten into horrible arguments with some of the regulars here--especially during the 2004 presidential elections, and there was a thread in 2005 that I disputed the number of Iraqis killed in the current war and was told I was the most negative person in the world and that I should go crawl back under the rock I came out of.

And dirt pit will be the first to tell you that I dished out as good as I got--although I don't think I resorted to name-calling; I attacked the issues. (Although I'm sure gridgardner will be happy to correct me--and even provide the links--if I am wrong.)

One of my all-time favorite people on these boards is gardenz. I haven't been around much in the past several months, so I don't even know if she's around anymore. My point is, she and I did NOT get along when I first started posting here. But when outside agitators invaded these boards (they were pro-chemical, commercial farmers) and started attacking not only us personally, but also our organic gardening practices, you better believe we circled the wagons, per se, and joined forces against these folks. If I remember correctly, gardenz was even banned for awhile b/c she was so strident in standing up against those marauders.

It also created a LOT of negative energy and there are many people I am fond of who left these forums and never came back--sort of like virtual casualties of war. But the upshot was that gardenz and I became friends as we formed a common bond around organic gardening. She is actually one of the most knowledgeable people about organic gardening that I know and, over the years, has freely given her time and knowledge, which, ultimately is what these boards are all about, Teo.

quote:

Ayahuasca is legal and so are many other entheogens.

I can not talk about the illegal ones, that is fine, but there are only 7 illegal plants and the rest are all 100% legal.

OK then. But, instead of shoving entheogens and ethnobotanicals down our throats (you yourself admitted to liz, another good friend of mine, that you started doing it to get a rise out of a few people), could we get to know one another and chat more about organic gardening, or school (I think it's awesome you are studying botany and horticulture; I hope you'll stick around 'cause I know for sure I could learn a lot from you) or about your dreams of being completely sustainable? Although I personally have an interest in the cultural/spiritual use of psychoactive plants, clearly it makes other people here uncomfortable. I don't condone the name-calling (dope pusher, scroungy and whatever else) but at the same time, when you go around provoking people who have told you they are uncomfortable with the subject matter, it's no better.

I know you are passionate about what you are doing, and I truly admire that, Teo. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to be when I grow up--and I'm old enough to be your mother! (In fact, I'm probably OLDER than your mother LOL!) The fact remains, sweetie, that this is an organic gardening forum 1st and foremost. If you want to get into conversations about ethnobotany I KNOW there are other message boards you can do that without people wigging out about it.

And I am also confident that if you stick around and let people get to know you and you get to know us, you will be able to introduce us to some of your cultural/spiritual practices without setting off alarms. I, personally, am looking forward to it. I think I asked you in another thread whether you've read any of the Carlos Castenada books about the Indian Warrior Don Juan, who allegedly took a young white man as his acolyte (did I spell that right) and taught him his spiritual ways. I read those books in my teens and 20s while on my own spiritual quest and found them riveting. I've read since then that Castenada's work has been debunked, that he didn't really have those experiences and that Don Juan didn't exist, but I still find the stories powerful and fascinating. If you do read any of those books, I'd love to know what you think and if you, from a spiritual perspective, believe the stories could be true.

quote:

I haven't bought a potato, tomato or pepper from any store in over 3 years I grow them all myself.

I'm trying to create a sustainable, self-sufficient, "green" farm where I can grow food and entheogens!

That is AWESOME, Teo! (Do you mind that I call you Teo? We tend to shorten long screen names around here.) How much land do you have? Are you doing it by yourself or do you have people working with you? I think I asked you before: Are you still living at home while you're in school? There were times I wished I could have done that: It's tough to support yourself while going to school full time. I know people do it all the time, but it doesn't make it any easier...

I'm glad you found these boards, Teo, and I hope you'll stick around, 'cause I know for a fact that you can teach us "old codgers" a thing or two; and, since you said in another thread that you're a beginner organic gardener, you might pick up some useful tips, as well.

fyi, I'm guessing the average age of posters here is mid-30s; the youngest two members I know of (and like I said, I haven't been around much lately) are in their teens and there are older members in their 60s (70s?). We come from very different backgrounds; as far as I know I am the ONLY multi-racial liberal organic gardener here. But I have friends here from all over the U.S. and even a few in Canada! Elfie, loamy, and luckyjellybean, to name a few. Despite our differences, we are all committed to organic gardening practices and helping others to learn how to grow beautiful fruits and vegetables without using Round Up, Miracle-Gro and any other chemically based soil or foliar treatments. And that makes us one big happy family--a family that doesn't always see eye to eye and argues from time to time, but I have grown to value them all--even the ones who piss me off--and vice versa.

I know I've already said this, but it is my sincere hope that you stick around. I'd really enjoy getting to know you and hearing about your adventures in school and growing your business. And if you give us a chance, the kindness of my friends and their depth of knowledge may grow on you, too.

Just in case nobody else has said this to you yet, Welcome to the the OG boards!

Hello again Phoebe,

I assume by what you posted, that poster must have posted something back to me. I have blocked Teo's posts, so I can't see them. I never called her anything except what she said she was. She herself said she smoked weed. This used to be a family forum and we all got along quite well. I have many, many friends here and I refuse to sit by and watch someone disrespect my friends. However, in the spirit of good will, I will have no other contact with that poster. Since I can't see what she posts, So there is no need for you to remind her of the rules here. I would suggest letting her post without giving your advice. You went to a great deal of trouble trying to play peacemaker and for that, I'm sure we are all greatful. I will say this is the first time that I've ever had to use the ignore function. I never even had to use it on Grid.

So in closing, here's a nice message to Teo.

Teo, post away. Tell everyone about the plants you grow. I'm sure Liz and Phoebe would be very interested. As for me, I apologize for trying to keep this a family forum. I should have blocked you in the beginning instead of trying to keep you in line. Posts away. Please.

Thanks for the suggestions...I think.

I'm not sure when/if/why this became a "family forum." I thought it was an organic gardening forum.

And, just so you know, I went to all this "trouble" b/c I think Teo has just as much right to post here as any other organic gardener. After reading some of the "Teo" threads, it seemed to me that the usually friendly OG folks were awfully quick to judge this person on the basis of what may simply be cultural differences.

I also went to the trouble b/c I like Teo. She's a smart, hardworking, driven young lady who's still finding her way. I was not NEARLY as together as she comes across when I was 20. I admire her and hope to get to know her better and am also trying to make her feel welcome.

Yes, she's sassy and explosive and can get defensive very quickly; she reminds me of ... me! only smarter.

I appreciate where you're coming from, HMK. I hope that once everyone calms down you'll give Teo another chance. She says she's studying botany and horticulture in college and she knows all the fancy latin names for plants...Heck, you might even learn something from her! But I won't hold my breath. Just wanted you to know where I'm coming from.

Really, it's been no trouble. I am enjoying getting to know Teo--and some of the other newbies who've been making themselves at home here. Personally, I like diversity, so the more the merrier IMO.

G'nite!

quote:

Originally posted by Hairy Moose Knuckles:
Hello again Phoebe,

I assume by what you posted, that poster must have posted something back to me. I have blocked Teo's posts, so I can't see them. I never called her anything except what she said she was. She herself said she smoked weed. This used to be a family forum and we all got along quite well. I have many, many friends here and I refuse to sit by and watch someone disrespect my friends. However, in the spirit of good will, I will have no other contact with that poster. Since I can't see what she posts, So there is no need for you to remind her of the rules here. I would suggest letting her post without giving your advice. You went to a great deal of trouble trying to play peacemaker and for that, I'm sure we are all greatful. I will say this is the first time that I've ever had to use the ignore function. I never even had to use it on Grid.

So in closing, here's a nice message to Teo.

Teo, post away. Tell everyone about the plants you grow. I'm sure Liz and Phoebe would be very interested. As for me, I apologize for trying to keep this a family forum. I should have blocked you in the beginning instead of trying to keep you in line. Posts away. Please.

This isn't you, is it, Teo?

http://www.entheogen.com/forum...d.php?t=22974&page=9

This person, also from SC, is referred to as a guy and says something about sucking on nuts. Seems like a much more poisonous personality than a couple of the other forums I've seen you post on. Am I correct?

Phoebe,

I wanted you to know that I read everything you posted. A couple of times in fact. I may be wrong, but to me, it seems that you don't believe that I like diversity or learning about different cultures. That is simply not the case. We have several new posters that I am getting to know. I seemed to have rubbed you the wrong way. If I have I apologize. If you remember, I'm the one, at Goldpearl's request, who put the word out when you went missing in action a couple of months ago. Like I said, I've never had any cross words with you, at least, none that I remember. Am I reading more into your posts than what you mean? That's the only thing about Internet chatter, you can never see facial expressions and it's hard to judge how people are coming off.

When I said this was a family forum, I simply meant that we didn't use to curse or talk about drugs. I haven't been around in awhile, so things may have changed. I do see that quite a few regulars are now gone.

I say we let this drop. If we continue, we might both end up on each others ignore list and that would be ashame. Especially over something ss silly as this.

Teo, please don't think that we hate plants other than food plants--many of us grow plants simply for their beauty or even to support wildlife. I myself have planted a bunch of red cedar and several magnolias, both because I like them and because they are evergreens which provide summer nesting areas for migratory birds and winter shelter for nonmigratory birds (even made a crochet hook from a small dead branch of a cedar). I've seen posts asking about plants for butterflies and hummingbirds as well as posts for healing herbs (Loamy mentioned in one that she knew from personal experience that dandelion was a POTENT diuretic).

The problem with posts concerning even slightly mind- or mood-altering substances is that it is a very touchy topic with many folks. We do have posters and lurkers here from time to time who are underage (Chris J. was still in High School when he first started posting, and I saw posts in crafts from an 8 year old grandaughter of an occasional poster); they don't have the experience to sort out what is appropriate in their life yet (some do NOT have appropriate guidance at home either). It is also illegal in many places, so frequent posts could be misinterpreted as encouraging others to break the law.

Elfie and I (and a couple of others) managed to carefully have a conversation exploring our very opposing views on abortion, and another poster and I (gardpro) held equally opposing views on the 2nd ammendment. Sadly, another discussion on religion got very, very ugly several years ago--so bad that there was talk of the site even possibly being shut down--so many of us here are very sensitive to controversial subjects.

There is a political forum where we can gather to discuss (politely) all sorts of topics with the understanding that we probably aren't going to agree on most points. I think it might be best to move discussions on psychoactive herbals there.