Not a real garden question, but am wondering if anyone out there can help...
We're finding small white worms in some dry goods in our kitchen cabinets. They're about a 1/4 inch long. There are white moths about the same size that flutter around when we move stuff around, open a cabinet etc. We don't see more than 2 or 3 at a time. I'm guessing they're the adult stage of these same worms.
The rice or grains are in plastic bags which were previously opened but are now closed with a twisty tie or a knot.

Shouldn't closed plastic bags keep these out or should we move everything to sealed plastic containers? Any suggestions on control/pest elimination would be helpful. Thanks.

Sorry to say, but it sounds like you have pantry pests. Closed plastic packaging will not keep these little ickies out, they chew their way in through the plastic, cellophane, or whatever. Sealed plastic containers may keep them out, if the seal is tight enough. If it isn't, be prepared to find them there, as well. And even if it seals tightly enough you may still find little webs and white worms up in the seal area. (Gross!!) You'd need to purchase pantry pest traps, and I can't remember who stocks them. Garden Way, maybe? Much of the time, you end up with these little lovelies courtesy of your grocer who may not rotate his stock frequently enough, or may not adequately treat for pantry pests in his back stockroom. I shop at salvage groceries, and pantry pests are a hazard, so when I get home, anything that may possibly harbor moths/larvae goes into the deep freeze for a month or so. Since I started doing this, I haven't seen 'em. (We have chickens, so almost anything with evidence of webs or larvae post deep-freeze goes out to the coop.)

Hey Lottsahops

I do what my mom and her mom do.

They put whole bay leaves in the cupboards.

Also, before putting goods in the cupboards, I put either the box or the stuff in the box into ziploc bags, or plastic containers. Anything with bugs in them go back to the store, or outside for the birds.
Plus down here with the high humidity it doesn't hurt to double seal dry goods.


Robin

The eggs for these grain moths were probably in the rice and grains when you bought them, seldom do they "chew their way in through packaging. A simple means of keeping them from hatching is to put the stored grains in the freezer, taking out only what you need to use at that time.

Glass jars will do the trick. When you buy any new grain products, put the food in large glass jars with lids. Those restaurant sized mayo and pickle jars are perfect for large containers of sugar, flour and rice.

I've never had such pests get into beans.

Pantry Pest Traps have a lure which attracks the males and they get stuck on the trap and can't mate with the females. You really, really need to get the traps or the moths will find all sorts of places to hide in you closets and cupboards, and in a couple months you'll have a whole new crop of freshly hatched moths... and they eat clothes too.

http://www.gardensalive.com
has the traps. Some garden centers do too, but not all traps have the right lure.

Agree with Mulchy. I've been using those Pantry Pest. traps for years to keep those mealworm/meal moths controlled. Keep replacing them every so often in the pantry.

But, cause I have so many dried flowers in my craft room, it's a given that I keep a couple of those traps in there at all times. I used to think they tagged along on the plants that I cut and brought in to hang and dry. But, over the years, I've discovered it's more likely, they come in on the other dried flowers that I have to purchase from wholesalers. While in shipping boxes, they have a chance to multiply, and would continue to do so once I "release" them in my craft room with all the other flowers hanging there, if I didn't have the traps! Hence...the traps are a necessity!

gardenz

I never knew they made traps for those pesty moths! You guys are such a help!

I get them when I don't put flour or pasta into gallon glass jars or zip lock bags right away.

I used to get these mealbugs also. Since then I store all my beans, grains, rice, flour, cornmeal, etc in the freezer. If the bug eggs are in these products when I purchased them, the freezing keeps them from hatching and multiplying. Don't think much of eating these eggs, but I guess it hasn't killed me yet. If the bugs are infesting my products after I get home the freezer keeps them out. Either way I have been bug free for years now. Another way these bugs can get into your house is through birdseed. If you store birdseed in your house you could be letting those little buggers in yourself. Hope this helps! Jane

echo all above.
these are (i believe) the clothing moths that we have cedar chests for. the house i bought had them bad. i considered req'ing the seller to tent the house. then the pest control co said that wouldn't kill them. (oh, joy!)
they get into just everything!!!! they chew thru everything except hard plastic. i've tried glass jars & when there's been a hatching they've been in & outside glass jars or whatever i've tried. my father found that leaving out a glass of wine acted as a trap, i don't know what they're attracted to but if he didn't finish his wine at night, it'd be full of htem in the morning. but it wasn't enough to wipe them out.
i rarly see them now. i keep everything in our freezers. seems kinda strange to go to the freezer for your flour, but it's the only way i've found to control them. i'm deffinatly going to get some of those traps!!!

Just echoing most of what's been said, but here's some descriptions of the different types of moths that might plague our homes:

http://www.pestproducts.com/grain_moths.htm

I can't recommend or vouch for any of their products. There's nothing on their site that says they are as safe as the Panry Pest Traps.. I suspect they're based on the same principle, but, since some of the other products they sell are (to say the least) "questionable" (toxcity-wise), I'd stick with the Pantry Pest Traps..

gardenz

Many thanks for starting this topic, since this is a problem that both my mom and I both have. We have tried Pantry Pest traps, lavender, camphor, you name it! We will try the freezer now!
BTW - I have bought traps from both Gardeners Supply and Gardens'Alive and both worked fine at attracting and trapping the moths. I guess we just keep getting reinfected...
Good luck to you all!
Foxglove

Wow! Thanks for all the great advice. I never expected to hear from these many folks on this subject. These forums continue to be the greatest place to look for friendly, free, neighborly advice. Thanks everyone!

The original eggs or larvae for the moths (at least for the initial infestation) probably were in the rice, grains, or convenience foods prior to buying them, but after an infestation is established, the adult moths may indeed burrow into other packaging (where you will find little chew holes and webbing from them laying more eggs and going through the larval stages). Flour and grain weevils, however, do not chew their way into packaging, but they are a completely different animal. (Another infestation you do NOT want.)

I know this about the flitter-moths (our term) because my grandparents had a very severe infestation up in MI when I was younger, and the only way they eventually got rid of them was use of the deep freeze, glass storage jars with airtight seals, and LOTS of pantry pest traps.

I'd imagine if you get them under control when they first appear, you may never see the moths chew their way back into new packaging.

Been there done that.

About 6 years ago i did my first serious attempt at deydrating lots and lots and lots of produce. I spent about 3 months over the summer and fall harvesting and dehydrating everything (okay I also froze and canned items too-thank God). After dehydrating i carefully put everything into plastic freezer bags (the thick one's) and put the items into the cupbord for later use.

A coupl;e of months later I got a bag of dried tomatoes out and Ugh! webs and wriggling worms all through the bag of tomatoes. OH NO!!!!! I immedately went through the rest of the bags (something like 50 of them) and all of them were infested with India Cupbord Moth larva and a few adults that flew out of the bags (#$@@%% moths).

The chickens got a wonderful winter feast of dried fruits and vegetables with larva (mmmmmmmm....larva......) and from that point on I put all home dried foods into the freezer and all other items into glass or very thick plastic containers (not bags!).

That was a very horrifying day. All that work done in by the moths and their kin.

I can't help but bring up a slightly OT subject, which is reusing glass jars. I can't recall who first posted about using jars to store grain products in, but it appears many of you do reuse jars. Bravo for you!

I save most of the glass jars I purchase products in for reuse. I store bulk purchases of beans, grains, and herbs in them. It drives DH a bit buggy that I have such a large collection of glass jars by now, and that washing out jars and soaking off their labels is added to the usual dish washing chores.

I can't help but reflect that I've PAID for that jar, so why shouldn't I reuse it? The price of any product includes the cost of packaging, so darn it I am going to get my money's worth. I save lots of packaging for reuse:

* most plastic containers with lids (yogurt cups, take out containers, etc.) for storage and winter sowing;
* plastic bags from baked goods and produce are usually used for cleaning up the doggie waste in the yard;
* aluminum containers from takeout for assorted used;
* plastic milk jugs for winter sowing, fashioning into scoops, etc.
* spice containers for holding smaller anounts of bulk spices and storing seed

Well, I could go on and on. Some of you obviously reuse glass jars, but I'm wondering how many of you reuse packaging in general?