In an excellently written article in this week's Time magazine, author John Cloud quotes ethnobotanist Gary Paul Nabhan (he studies the relationship between plants and people) from his book "Coming Home to Eat: The Pleasures and Politics of Local Foods"...

"If you send it halfway around the world before it is eaten, an organic food still may be 'good' for the consumer, but is it 'good' for the food system?"

In the same article, Whole Foods' CEO, John Mackey compares locally grown, non-organic produce with California-grown organic food by saying they are "an environmental wash" since the California one had petroleum miles on it while the non-organic one was grown with pesticides.

What do you think?

For many of us here, an obvious answer might be to grow organic locally.

But how many of us can truly fill our entire food supply both locally and organically?

What are your thoughts on sustainable farming vs organic farming?

Read the Time magazine article, by the way. It touches on many subjects that are dear to members here.

Johnny, it would be great to be able to produce all of our own food in our own backyard. In the summer months and on into the fall it's so easy and the only power used to get that food into my kitchen is muscle power provided by my legs!

But during the winter months we either eat canned or frozen food, until we can't take it anymore and have to buy some of that fresh stuff. Both DH and I are big eaters of fresh in vegetables and fruit. Now if only we could find a way to grow our own fresh all winter long we would be happy.

We are planning on putting up a greenhouse and are hoping to be able to grow some fresh things all year long but not sure if that is posible.

You have to wonder what the world would be like if the seed companies put as much effort into getting plants that grew well and produced year around in a greenhouse as they did into the nasty roundup ready seeds.

Great question! Personally, I choose local first, organic second. Part of that is an economic choice on my part--local farmer's market produce is WAY cheaper than grocery store organic produce. And since, as you've also read, it seems to be environmentally equivalent, I feel good about that choice (even if it does mean ingesting some chemicals I'd rather not).

I will *sometimes* purchase organic from local farmers--when it's available--*if* it's not ridiculously expensive. While I certainly understand paying a premium for organic produce, sometimes I think they take advantage of the market--honestly, a tiny clutch of half a dozen miniature carrots for $3? I don't think so.

Of course, ideally, I'd be growing my local produce in my own backyard, but I simply don't have the experience or time to completely feed my family that way. But we're working on it!

Heather

According to John Jeavson all you need to grow all your for 1 person for a year is 4000 sq ft.

Good question. My first choice is local and organic. Second choice is organic but not local. At the Farmers' Market you get the first choice only, but I do want to be able to eat mangos and bananas too.

First choice for me this time of year is locally grown organic lettuce and tomatoes.
My freezer is still pretty full of vegetables,strawberries and blueberries;no fresh salad,though.
When I run out of carrots, I buy organic from California.
I'm lucky that there are a lot of organic products sold year round here,including dairy+eggs.
There's a local indoor winter Farmers'Market that sells organic.
Like jenniferch, we like organic bananas and drink only organic coffee.
For me,'organic' is important. Coping with a chronic illness or surviving cancer has greatly influenced our eating behaviors .

quote:

Originally posted by bullfrog876:
According to John Jeavson all you need to grow all your for 1 person for a year is 4000 sq ft.

4,000 sq ft sounds a little high for just one person. Is that using the SFG method?

That 4,000 square foot is fine if you have that kind of space. That is a 40' X 100' area. or 80' X 50'. I don't think there are that many of us who have that much space available.

I buy locally if there is anything available.
We don't have a Farmer's Market in the winter months. I buy extra peppers in the late fall to cut up and freeze if I don't have enough.
I bought enough tomatoes to can a batch of romas before my plants started to yield anything.

My biggest problem with growing enough is trying to find places to grow tomatoes and peppers so that the deer won't get them. I made the mistake of letting Walnut trees grow around my main garden that I have fenced. But I have plans to grow more organic food other than Tomatoes and Peppers in that spot.

Overall I prefer home grown to all else. I like knowing how many hours those peas have been off of the vine.

Organic meat, I don't think there is such a thing to be had around here.

Tee hee,
800 to 1000 sq feet is what I have and it is more than enough for two people...until, say, May 1 for Z4!
And I have umpteen space for herbs and (oh,no)-
flowers!
Hey, Wasrabbity, move to Vermont! Ha-ha...lots of 'Organic' meat happening in that state.
I love Vermont!
I should live there for all the time I spend there!

Franeli,

You almost do live there. What's the difference between where you are now - one mile from Vermont - and Vermont? Just different taxes.

We have about 1,600 sq ft, including the greenhouse, and the only thing we've run out of so far this year is carrots. The cute, little face to the left is responsible for that.

This year, I'm hoping to add two ~50 foot long terraces on a hill behind our greenhouse for squash, melons, blueberries, and a few other things.

So, anyway... about the Time magazine article... did anyone else read it?

Having noticed that several people here mentioned buying organic, it may be worth noting that commercial growers must meet more stringent standards to call their produce 'organic' than us home growers do. If we're not selling our produce, we can claim to grow organic without meeting the standards.

We're not purely 100% organic in our methods because we use some materials that are not certified organic. In the Time article, the author describes a CSA (Community Supported Agriculture) farm in the Hudson River Valley that is not organic. But based on his description, I would be very happy eating produce from that farm.

So, "local" that is grown with 'natural' methods is preferable to me than (certified) organic with 'petroleum miles'.

Eliot Coleman grows enough on one acre to feed 40 people for a year. That's about 30x32-foot garden per person. We grow enough to eat fresh all season, and then freeze and can enough to almost make it through winter. We pretty much never eat tomatoes out of season.

Since both the organic and chemical produce at the store has petroleum miles on it, we opt for the organic. In season, our organic growers at the farmer's market sell produce at almost what you pay for conventional, so folks here are blessed in that regard.

Our organic growers at the farmer's markets here in NH & VT sell their produce at astronomical prices. We never buy any of it - we grow what we eat.

We also practice the habit of eating in season. Haven't seen a fresh tomato since December when we picked the last of them from the greenhouse. No fresh greens here since January when we stopped picking spinach. But our greens will be coming back in in just a few weeks.

Through the winters, we eat a lot of coleslaw and other cabbage salad, and carrot and garlic salad. Actually this year, since our little one ran us out of carrots, we bought some at store.

I found out that locally, "organic Certification" is not necessary unless you want to say that your produce is "Certified Organic". "Organically Grown" produce does not require the hassle or paperwork. You just have to be able to prove that your "Grown organically" to prevent someone from suing for false advertising.

That's right. If you sell less than $5,000 worth of produce a year, you can call it organic so long as you follow the same procedures as you would for certification. You just can't advertise as "Certified Organic" or use the USDA organic icon.

quote:

I found out that locally, "organic Certification" is not necessary unless you want to say that your produce is "Certified Organic". "Organically Grown" produce does not require the hassle or paperwork. You just have to be able to prove that your "Grown organically" to prevent someone from suing for false advertising.

Bill Griffin

quote:

Originally posted by Peterfoss:
That's right. If you sell less than $5,000 worth of produce a year, you can call it organic so long as you follow the same procedures as you would for certification. You just can't advertise as "Certified Organic" or use the USDA organic icon.

Wow, that's good to know!!!

Still trying to find a Time magazine.

Later: Ok I found it! Thanks for the tip, Johnnie A. Thought-provoking topic!

By the way, the article is available online here: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1595245,00.html?iid=chix-del