So I just posted about my community garden banning cardboard and a the same time I learned that they use RoundUp on Poison Ivy, and Kudzu (of which I did not even know was a problem in Ohio)... so I am looking for alternatives to controlling these weeds and came across horticultural vinegar and was wondering about any personal experiences anyone has, and how it works? I am looking for alternatives for the garden to use, as they only allow organic gardening (though they do use roundup, which I thought was a bit contradictory). Thanks!

-emily

Contrary to what many "organic" gardeners seem to think no glyphosate product is acceptable to any organic gardener. Articles in Organic Gardening Magazine have made that clear and simple common sense should tell anyone it would not be acceptable. However, there are numerous articles out there that list the hazards of these products, not the articles written by people employed by the manufacturers that will tell you they are benign.

agreed! So are there any organic practices (horticultural vinegar, boiling water?) that you have tried? I was quite surprised that they use roundup, but they did state that they were open to discussion about alternatives... I was just shocked because I thought that the whole organization was about organic gardening... and while they only use it on poison ivy and kudzu, it is in the vicinity of the community garden, and we don't knwo where they spray it (I git them to agree to mark the locations)... That roundup stuff is nasty!

-emily

I'm sorry, emily, I can't offer any first-hand experience w/eradicating poison ivy or kudzu. But the horticultural vinegar is certainly a better way to start than the RoundUp.

As Kimm said, despite the claims of some 'organic' gardeners that glyphosate is benign and perfectly acceptable in an organic venue....well, it just isn't. Moreover, it's the ubiquitous "inert" ingredient (POEA or polyoxyehtyleneamine) and the combination of it and glyphosate that enhances RoundUp's toxicity and amplifies the reasons for its prohibition from organic gardening.

I find it incredibly hypocritical that the community garden is making such a big deal out prohibiting the corrugated cardboard and then turns around and approves RoundUp! Beyond oxymoronic!

BTW: If they're so concerned about the minute amounts of any urea-formaldehyde resin used in construction of some corrugated boxes, you should tell them they probably consume more formaldehyde when they add a couple packets of Equal into the coffee. Geesh.

Emily,

Perhaps you might also discuss with them how numerous studies have found that Roundup is one factor implicated in the worldwide decline of amphibians.

Just for example:
"Pitt assistant professor of biology Rick Relyea found that Roundup(reg), the second most commonly applied herbicide in the United States, is "extremely lethal" to amphibians. This field experiment is one of the most extensive studies on the effects of pesticides on nontarget organisms in a natural setting, and the results may provide a key link to global amphibian declines."
/snip/

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/22159.php

good luck,
ellen

The POEA that Gardenz mentions is what causes Roundup to be so bad for amphibians that Ellen mentions. It's a surfacant (detergent) added so the mixture sheets on the plants instead of beading and rolling off, and break through waxy coating on the plants so more glyphosate can get in the leaves.

In my perennial beds, I occasionally have poison ivy pop up here and there (I have a love/hate relationship with the wild birds I feed) Boiling water does a great job of killing poison ivy - one application is all that has been necessary whenever I find a new spot of it. Not knowing how extensive the poison ivy problem is at your community garden, it's hard to say if this would be a practical option. But I can vouch for it working well.

Hope this helps - good luck with your community garden.

So they will not allow cardboard, on the off chance that there may be a bit of formaldehyde which is harmful if inhaled but is a normal part of the soil, but will allow an extremely hazardous material to be sprayed that is known to poison the groundwater, hmm.

Be glad they are using RoundUp and not weed-B-gon... RoundUp does disintegrate and decompose after a while, but it is still unacceptable. Try a portable camping stove to pour boiling H2O on the plants.

What is horticultural vinegar? Glacial Acetic acid or what?

Link to a good source of it here. Best prices I have found. I have used regular vinegar with good results, haven't tried this yet. I probably will tonight. vinegar

I have use horticultural grade vinegar on weeds with good success. We do not have kudzu(thank God), but do have poison ivy and oak. To which I am highly allergic.
I've read with interest the "debate" on whether or not to use Roundup. I personally don't have an issue with using it if I've tried everything else and it doesn't work. Like any other "nuclear level killer" I am very careful to follow the directions, as well as wearing proper clothing and disposing of leftovers as suggested by the manufacture. DH and I have been using organic methods for over 25 years, but I'm not that much of a purist. I use a long handled basting brush to apply it to poison ivy, since the alternative for me is a trip to the ER if I come in contact with the crap.
I was amazed to find some nurseries still selling kudzu over the web. I am just beginning to learn more about native species and how to deal with non native invasive plants. Part of the problem seems to be the lack of education on the part of the public and the greed for profit from some of these nurseries, seems very short sighted to me.

needmorespace, If Roundup actually did "disintegrate and decompose after a while," as you say, why do the EPA Groundwater people find traces of it in water systems far removed from the point of use?