In another thread, Oliverman said <<I just don't understand why these products are used, since they kill legumes such as clover and alfalfa. I work hard keeping the legume populations up in my pastures, and weed problems can readily be manages with proper clipping after grazing.>>

Thought I'd toss in my departure from organic gardening on the this subject. I have three horses who share about 2.5 acres of pasture, which they have heavily grazed. So while I still get grass, I also get a LOT of clover. Clover makes my horses quite ill and last year we battled months with having to keep the horses locked up because the clover caused slobbers and eventually colic.

I tried many things, but in the end, I resorted to toxic chemicals to kill the broad leaf weeds and leave the grass. I plan to use them again this year.

It does put me in a difficult manure dilemna, since I don't want to use the toxic manure on the garden, and I probably only have another year of "old" manure left.

So far, I have not found an acceptable way around this situation, other than keeping the horses off the pasture completely.

I never knew that about horses and clover.

Is it the clover that grows close to the ground and has white flowers or the kind that has pinkish/purplish flowers that are larger ans grow taller?

Or maybe both kinds?

At the stable where I go riding, last year the horses were drooling all over the place and it was gross. I asked about it and the owner said "oh yeah, they got into some clover down by the river". It was the red kind I think.

Actually, "clover slobber" is caused by a fungus in the clover.

Well, if you are going to use the herbicides, do you at least not use this new persistent one, or do you just use whatever.

quote:

Originally posted by kel-og:
Actually, "clover slobber" is caused by a fungus in the clover.

Exactly. Not all clover has the fungus, & even if it does, it doesn't affect all horses. Some horses aren't affected at all, some just get the slobbers (which in itself is harmless), & some with higher sensitivity can have stomach/intestinal issues (colic).

NC,I can see why you might not want the clover. It is such good cattle feed and provides so much nitrogen for the grasses. Of course one does have to manage it carefully to avoid bloat issues. I just saw that manure from cattle was being recommended against and I didn't see why someone trying to feed cattle would not want clover.

Having had horses for over 20 some odd years, our biggest fear was fescue grass because of fungus. However, I've never heard of colic being caused by fungus. Around here it is sand colic.

Since then I have fed my horses a mix of beet pulp soaked in hot water with every evening meal. I have not had a real colic in over 20 years because of it. The beet pulp moves the digestive tract and cleans them out daily.

As an addition to the regular feed, it cuts down on feed cost and vet bills.

If you don't use beet pulp, I highly recommend it. Forget rhe Psyllium fiber and all that. This stuff works!

I was just reading a Mother Earth News Guide to Organic Gardening and it listed the names of the persistent herbicides containing aminopyralid plus other related herbicides. They are:

Milestone, Confront, Curtail, Forefront, Hornet, Lontrel, Millenium Ultra, Reclaim, Stinger and Transline.

These herbicides supposedly persist in the soil for years so if you make the decision to use an herbicide DO NOT buy one of these.

There may be others but these are some of the really bad ones.