Obviously I'm not Scott replying to your question about ORGANIC FARMING magazine, but here is some info you might like anyway:

Rodale has resurrected the FARMING portion of the OGF as an on-line magazine that you can read for free. Check out www.newfarm.org. It's pretty cool -- cover crops, selling vegetables retail, pigs and chickens. Lots of real life experiences from real farmers. They have forums also.

No, I don't think you got slapped. I think Scott gave the only realistic reply possible, given that these forums are only one tiny part of his duties. I think I am almost as frustrated as you, but I see it from Scott's point as well. I view it as such: We, on this forum, are fanatics. Many of us are at the edge of the spectrum. OG is trying to appeal to the middle of the spectrum. We don't represent the majority of OG's readers, and Scott cannot pander to the minority. I've accepted this over the last couple years. I've often questioned why there is no monthly gardening publication devoted to hobby vegetable growing and I have to conclude that there aren't enough fanatics like myself to really justify such a publication.

I don't really consider MEN and Countryside as competitors to OG -- I consider them complimentary and I buy them all. I realize a lot of people can't afford to do that, but with MEN subscriptions under $13 and OG often available for under $15, the total cost of all 3 is acceptable to me. I consider the OG forums as part of my OG cost and the price for the comination is, I feel, fair. I also supplement with "The Heirloom Gardener". Between those sources, plus my on-line purchases of old OG mags, I am able to satify my gardening literature craving.

Aris, after you put together that amazing 7 page letter, I can only conclude that you should be writing for OG! You obviously have the ability -- are there any topics you would consider? Maybe, just maybe, a well written, in-depth article from someone like you might make some inroads for your fellow fanatics!

Scott, OG is drowning and you're grasping at straws. It's not working. And quite frankly I don't like the tone of your voice. You are getting angry at those of us that support you. Actually you could make a good politician.

aris:
Yup, you got slapped. He is definitely trying to put you down because he knows that most everything you said was fact. As I said earlier he's answering like a politician, trying very hard to make himself and OG look good and putting you down a notch or two. For what it's worth I'm with you from way up north in Winnipeg, Canada.

*Blows a kiss to both walleye and voarhcus* You're probably both right. I've never heard such tone from Scott before, and goddess knows I'm an outlier on the statistic scale of life.

Hee hee hee. I sincerely doubt that OG would buy an article from me after all the stuff I've posted on this thread alone, but perhaps I'll have to submit something about raised beds -- a favorite of mine -- to another magazine. I've already got the requisite number of polite rejection notices under my belt!

Keep writing Aris, you are very good in a totally different way way than Gardenz is. Your information and fact gathering and comparisons are excellent. Throw in a few warm fuzzies and you're good to go.

I pretty much liked the March issue. I was disappointed that it was a short read.

When I finished reading, I was ready to plant some lettuce and blue potatoes!!!!And redo some of my flowerbeds. Alas, it's cold and wet outside.

Pictures also help put me in the gardening mood.

No, there was really nothing in the March issue that I didn't know how to do. It did 'remind' me of a couple of things.

I've noticed on these forums, mostly 'over the fence'/'new gardeners', theres lots of repeated questions from new gardners, sometimes the same questions . Over and over again. The great people here always answer them!
You see those same beginner-type questions in OG and other garden magazines.

Don't we want to continue to introduce OG to new people? We gardeners using the forums and the OG magazine folks have to attract these new people, keep them interested.

Just an example: Those raised beds in the March issue. Basic info, so if I'm really interested I will research it. By coming Here! Reading what others are doing, asking questions.

As much as I like the internet, I love holding a good magazine in my hands! I've stuck it out with OG and will continue to do so. I like OG's values.


* Aris, I think you know Scott values your opinion. I know I do. I value Aris and All the gardeners here.


Robin

Just in passing, I think Scott should really take to heart the information from Aris instead of trying to excuse the condition of the present magazine. We would all be a lot happier and lets face it, we do help to pay the bills!!!

i think some you are taking this thread and OG the magazine to seriously. I did not mean start a fight, but i think maybe some you need to take breath and step back.One OG and all it's articles will never be perfect for everone. Second Og has had many writers and editors over the years , some i liked and some did not like.Third, one reason rosedale press prints books on organic gardening is that the magazine has always been to small for the amount of info on organic gardening that is out there.
markferon

aris - you go, girl! You are a voice for all of us who are not as eloquent - or as brave.

I think that there is a market for a magazine like the old OG - people like us would buy it - but it's pretty obvious that it's not going to be the new OG.

I have a degree in Ornamental Horticulture, and am pretty well versed in soil science and botany, so the articles seem elementary to me.

What I do enjoy is reading about new plants - but I can always get that info from seed catalogues.

I have been debating whether or not to cancel my subscription - I just renewed, though, so I guess I'll give it another year.

The other mags I get, while not organic, sure can find tons of info to write about on all kinds of gardening subjects.

I was always partial to OG - mainly because of Mike McG - but perhaps I am in the minority there!

I think, aris, that you were told that if you don't like the magazine - then don't buy it - someone else will. Yeah... I think that's a slap.

Mark Feron,
You make a good point. OG mag will never be the perfect magazine for everyone. IS there such a thing?
Seems to me that many of the magazines mentioned have lots to offer - but apparently none of them have it all or those who are unhappy would just buy that magazine and their magazine problems would be over.

After reading Aris' comments about Countryside magazine and the articles it had, I went and bought my first copy of it. I'd seen it on the shelves many times but never bought it....and why? NO COOL PICTURES!! Somehow, I'd made a wrong assumption about this particular magazine, thinking no cool pictures meant no great content - I was wrong. It's a very good magazine. Not all of the articles applied to me or were something I could use, but enough of them were to make it worth the purchase price. Call me shallow, but at times I LIKE pictures. When I'm dead tired and too exhausted to comprehend anything at the end of a long day, the pictures are refreshing and inspiring - the short articles are enough to kick my creativity into gear and push me to learn more from another source if the information provided hasn't been enough to satisfy me. I don't need the equivalent of a 7 course meal every time I sit down with a magazine. I'm OK with it being a buffet. I don't expect every article to blow my socks off. Some magazines have a reputation for being wonderful issue after issue, some a reputation for being hit or miss. The ones that are always great I subscribe to. The one's that are hit or miss, I buy off the stand after I've had a chance to look at each issue and determine whether or not it's interesting this month - or I borrow it from the library.

I have yet to find any one magazine that is the 'be all and end all'. I guess I just take the good that each one has to offer and don't worry about the rest.


I'm curious as to OG's policy with regard to refunds when people feel they've been hood-winked and aren't getting the magazine they were promised. If requested, would a refund be made?

Aris,

If you ever run smack into a day when you have nothing to do how about writing that article on raised beds and posting it here. I wouldn't mind reading it.

I can't comment on the issue. I didn't get it. Why? Because I let my subscription expire about 6 months ago. Why? I could write a book.....

I miss the old days with Mike. The lengthy informative articles. Now it's a 15 minute read tops. Half the magazine is ads. It's a shame. I used to love the old OG. To me it looks like it's dying. I wonder how long this website will last?

No one magazine...no one anything is a panacea.
Bits of information are culled from many sources. I've subscribed to many garden mags over the years and periodically drop them according to my tastes, but more often, due to my finances at the time. Even then, those that are cancelled, are dispatched reluctantly, as I don't want to deprive myself of any possible source of garden info, no matter how slim. If it peeks my interest, I'll expand research on it elsewhere (as Buffalogal alluded). I wouldn't expect any publication, endeavoring towards mass [gardener] appeal, to devote entire, lengthy treatise to a myriad of subjects in each issue.

Some mags concentrate on pictorals, or design; others invest significant space on tips or recipes; still others assume their readership only refers to plants by their Latin names; while others are heavy with anecdotes or insightful inspirations. Then there's those aimed at small, home/apartment gardeners vs. those who's readership's motivation is self-sufficiency and farming as a livelihood. Targeted audiences of novices, intermediates and those who haven't seen clean fingernails for decades.

I believe OG, is attempting to cover all bases and appeal to all levels, in order to stay competitive and not butt figurative magazine heads with any one publication. Many of their larger competitors, however, fill space with a plethora of ads, articles and advice non-organic and/or pro chemical, thus providing deeper coffers from which to pull funding for additional pages.

Unfortunately, in an effort to please all, it's a foregone conclusion that some folks will be disappointed, and others will feel completely disenfanchised and leave. Just as there's many levels of gardeners here on these forums; different motivations why we garden; whether we're into veggies/flowers or herbs; read only the contents of Club or OTF and never venture into Watchdogs, Seed Swap or Crafts...we still pick and choose according to our gardening/personal appetites. Skip some, glance at others and spend a half hour writing a response on another. If nowhere on these Forums could one find any pleasure, information, stimulation or challenge, then they'd be wasting their time logging in.

Same above principles appy to OG magazine. Because, ultimately, it's what you're looking for - and get - out of it which determines whether you send in the renewal form.

gardenz

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to post your thoughts about the magazine and especially those trying to understand what Ive posted here. Your opinions do matter to me and I take them to heart, but that doesnt mean I can (or even should) do what you ask me to do.

I agree with all of you that there are not enough pages in the magazine (and obviously far fewer than we had in the past). I would like at least 30 more content pages to fill in each issue and 4 more issues per year. But the fact is, OG cannot afford that now. We have a commitment to the Rodale family to keep the magazine solvent. We are adding as many pages as we can this year, and hope to keep it growing. That is neither a promise nor a plea to hang on until some unspecified time in the future, its just what is.

What will it take to get more pages in the magazine? We have as many pages as our current subscription revenue allows us. We need advertising to cover the costs of more pages. I know this may not be what you expect, but magazines dont choose their advertisers, advertisers choose magazines. We will not accept ads for synthetic fertilizers and pesticides, but otherwise we are glad to have (and, frankly, need) the ads for products such as Toyotas hybrid car and all of the outdoor power equipment you see in our magazine. These products may not meet your definition of suitable for organic gardeners, but without them there is no OG.

The number of pages and who advertises are not within my control. The content of the magazine is. Given a limited number of pages, Ive made of couple of key choices that I believe are in the interest of our readers. First, weve kept our feature articles relatively short 4 to 5 pages maximum so that we can cover more topics in each issue. That way, more readers will find articles that interest them. Second, we are organizing the content into smaller bites of information so we can make it easy for any reader to find what interests him/her. This chunking of the content does not lend itself to the narrative style of writing that we published in the past. But I dont believe that you get less information or more basic info this way. We are insisting that nearly every article be based on interviews with experts in the field, so that you do get up to date and useful information. I ask you to take a careful look at the March issue to see if you dont find fresh tips and ideas you can use in your garden.

I understand that some of you want a magazine like OG was 30 years ago, like Countryside or MEN is now. That is simply not a viable option for OG today. If I came off as a little terse in my last post, that is because I was accused of compromising our readers interests to further an alleged hidden agenda to sell other companies products. I felt compelled to refute that claim, because it was baseless. We list sources with most articles, as OG always has, but very few of them are advertisers (you can check this for yourself) we list sources because if we cover a subject and dont offer a source, readers contact us asking for one. When we have a financial interest in promoting any product, we make that very clear and upfront.

I must accept that some of you will not be satisfied with this explanation or my approach to the content of OG. I hope you will look at the last two issues (Jan/Feb and March) with an open mind and decide for yourself if the magazine is worth what you pay for it.

Thanks to all of you.

Scott