I am interested in starting a thread regarding biodynamics. I'm hoping it has not been discussed before, it would be nice if there was a search feature for all the forums.

In the research I have done into biodynamics I am finding that there is a very large group of farmers that hail its benefits, but struggle in finding a way to quantify them. I hear, "You have to be a farmer to see the benefit", etc. over and over. I respect that, but there has to be tangable ways at eliciting the benefit of biodynamic production. Without them I don't think the majority of people will take a stab at it.

I have also heard of water drop and sensitive crystalization tests that claim to do this, but are deemed "too objective" by "maintream" farmers. Anybody heard of 'em?

Does anyone have comments, input, questions, etc. on this topic? Thanks a bunch.

I have a few opinions about biodynamic farming, vs. organic farming, or other forms of sustainable farming:

http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/organic/2002083353003940.html

Happy Gardening!

fdiosus, You got me looking into it! From what I know about biodynamics, the main differences are the using the scheduling of planetary influences on the soil and the plants, and farms should be self-sustaining, and the economic aspect of using community supported agriculture, CSAs, that are really taking off in popularity.

And there's no question that the Moon and Sun affect our planet and its plant life, and I think I have seen posts here where people have really stuck to that, feel they've gotten results.

The important thing organic growing and biodynamics have in common is knowing the soil is "alive" and amending it, nurturing it as a living entity, which everyone has high on their list here.

Here's an interesting tidbit:

Biodynamics is the oldest, non-chemical agricultural movement and pre-dates organic agriculture by some twenty years. Biodynamics does more than avoid chemicals and seeks to actively work with the health-giving forces of nature. Biodynamics is a world-wide agricultural movement. Farms may be certified Biodynamic by the Demeter Association, an international certifier."

I see that the sensitive crystallization was developed for an early detection of cancer in the blood, but what is it that you are looking for when used in plants? I can only find where to buy the paper, I can't find how it's used with plants.

And Captain Compost, I absolutely admire and respect your experience and knowledge about everything you post here, but I felt your description of Permaculture on the other site was an unusual perspective.

The original definition by Mollison, the original developer of Permaculture is: "Permaculture design is a system of assembling conceptual, material, and strategic components in a pattern which functions to benefit life in all its forms. The philosophy ....is one of working with, rather than against nature; of protracted and thoughtful observation rather than protracted and thoughtless action; of looking at systems in all their functions, rather than asking only one yield of them; and of allowing systems to demonstrate their own evolutions. The word 'permaculture' can be used by anybody adhering to the ethics and principles expressed herein."

And the operative words are "design" and "system". And that when agricultural systems are designed well, they can be self-sustaining and labor-saving while improving the earth, the yields, the lives of those who participate in them. The benefit of it is that one doesn't have to get things from elsewhere when good designs are set into motion. The knowledge and theories permaculture promotes are about what agricultural practices can be used together to be even more productive than if used separately (as in different locations) or if only one is used.

It's a good design to have the chicken poop drop through wire mesh onto a slope that is drained by water collected from the roof into tanks that make compost tea that have hoses into the garden. It's about how not to monocrop, placing housing out of the path of fire, growing crops on hillsides with earthworking resources, animal "tractors", free-range foraging, desert life strategies, aquaculture, and many, many other ways to develop an agricultural system.

Not everyone wants to be self-sufficient, but even using just a few of the permaculture principles can increase our understanding of how nature works, improve our own situations, and save us lots of effort in the long run.