I can not see how hydroponic medium could equal compost? It is not created by nature, it is created by man, yes??

I saw a site saying "organic hydroponic..." blah blah, those two words do not go together, do they?

Well, one could grow watercress or rice organically in water outdoors and be said to be growing both naturally and hydroponically.

Seems like indoor hydroponic growers do exactly what greenouse growers do: provide nutrients to the growing medium in which to plant seedlings. In this case, the medium is water rather than soil. If the nutrients provided are from organic sources, I don't understand the issue.

In the broader scheme of things, there is very little that any gardener does that is "natural." The hand of the gardener is always muicking around to help Ma Nature.

Wayne

In the last few years hydroponics gardening has become very in tune with organics; in fact, so much so that most commercial hydroponics systems have come to realize that they have to worry as much about the mutualistic relationships between the plants and things such as mycorrhizae and many types of bacteria, as well - not just adding chemicals in certain proportions, depending on whether the plant is growing, flowering, or fruiting. In just the last couple of years, since I started growing herbs this way, the number of organic and OMRI listed items in catalogs has grown exponentially.

I only grow herbs (actually, I tried some leaf lettuce last year - also worked well) in the off-season, and root cuttings this way - growing a flowering vegetable is too much trouble for me to wait 60-70 days, or even more, before getting any results, and having to take care of it all that time! However, I quickly found out that herbs grow so well in this, that I only need one of most plants in the off season - they grow so fast that I cut off what I need, sometimes even more to trim it back, and it is back so fast it looks like I didn't take any! Now I know why they grow illegal things this way - anything vegetative grows almost faster than you can harvest it!

Dave

Some people think that hydroponics can be organic but some of us do not see how since there is no Soil Food Web in the water solution the plants grow in. Some people think they are organic if they us only organic fertilizers and pest and disease controls while some of us do not see how that can be if the soil is not properly cared for.

While I agree that hydroponics does not fit the traditional Organic footprint (soil web, sustainable gardens, organically recyclable, feeding soil, etc.) I can't help but think an organic approach to hydroponics has to be an improvement over chemically treated and fertilized produce commonly found in the local grocery.
I suppose that I'm suggesting that hydroponics can be organic, (natural) but it isn't technically organic gardening.

hmmm, I see.

I also wondered if using compost "tea" as a medium would be more 'organic'??

I sure love your growing herbs that way! Makes me want to run out and get a set up! I love cooking with herbs!

Here are a few hydro-photos, to show you how well the stuff grows!

Dave

Growing organically is not using chemical fertilizer, chemicals for insect control and disease control. Nowhere in the organic standards does it say vegetables must be grown in soil.
I suppose if the water that circulates is from a municipal water source then the water would not be organic.
Yes, any vegetable watered from a municipal water source cannot be considered organic because all municipal water sources use chemicals to treat their water.
Betcha didn't think about that.

My dad has been growing some things usuing hydroponics. He's doing it as organicly as he can. His water comes from his fish pond/tank and he uses compost tea for more nutrients. I think he simply uses gravel as his growing medium.

As someone else said, it's not traditional organic gardening as most folks know it, but it sure beats the chemical way.

Leafspot, you make an excellent point about the water supply!

quote:

Originally posted by leafspot:
Growing organically is not using chemical fertilizer, chemicals for insect control and disease control. Nowhere in the organic standards does it say vegetables must be grown in soil.
I suppose if the water that circulates is from a municipal water source then the water would not be organic.
Yes, any vegetable watered from a municipal water source cannot be considered organic because all municipal water sources use chemicals to treat their water.
Betcha didn't think about that.

I would bet that the majority of "organic gardeners" would be taken out of the category, if this were to be considered. And this has been an area of dabate for a long time - is it safer to water using "natural" river, creek, lake, or pond water, which often has dangerous bacteria in them (which has infected lettuce, scallions, and other such things), or municipal water, with chloramines, and the like to sterilize them? Lets face it - most of us can't dig down to a truly safe depth for well water, as commercial farmers are required to do in many places.

Dave

Quote:
Originally posted by pepperhead212:
Lets face it - most of us can't dig down to a truly safe depth for well water, as commercial farmers are required to do in many places.

I used to work for Idaho DEQ and saw a map of southwest Idaho most of the areas with ground water high in nitrates was in areas with commercial farmers. In California (1970's) they were talking about the pumping of ground water was causing salt water to intrude further inland under the coast range into the San Joaquin Valley. I don't know that there will ever be a safe depth to drill to.

While I'm not in any way tossing aside any of the points mentioned, I think we're totally getting WAY WAY out of hand re: defining "organic gardening", & if we continue along these lines, we're just going to scare away people interested in pursuing it.

Come on people - now we're going to start dickering about water sources & whether they're organic or not? Good grief.

I don't think anyone is bickering, merely having an open discussion about the fact that there is a lot of non-organic junk in most water nowdays.

Hi all.... popped back in.

What's the deal w/ "Organic Standards" and all that? To me, since I started w/ Organic Gardening thru Rodale Press & the teachings of JI Rodale (he was alive & writing back then) I've just seen it as a way of growing; thru taking care of the soil, that takes care of my plants. We agreed years ago that the NOP is NOT something that we would be interested in, other than for marketing.
The USDA wouldn't know what organic growing was if it came in & piled itself all over their desks. They allow things that made us cringe, and forbade (and nearly forbade) things we considered basic requirements. Organic Standards are a way of getting a label for marketing. I value my CNG (Certified Naturally Grown) certification much more than I would a USDA NOP cert.

Hey Dave--are your hydro growers commercial, kits or something you put together after some research? I'm thinking plastic totes, fountain pumps, pea gravel or rockwool cubes might be cheaper to put them together yourself--kinda like the worm bins we've talked about on here. I'm interested (organic or not) in some better results than I get from warming mats and flourescents, but seriously on a tight budget atm-----That 6 hole "complete setup" at almost 200 bucks (looks like a 10 gallon tote) is serious money for me.
Muxedup---I've been in Organics for a long time too--and figured out a lONG time ago that unless I want to put that ORGANIC sticker on my stuff and sell it, it's more about what I choose to do than anything else.